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why not? A different reaction to crisis will give different results?
by IM on Sat Mar 17th, 2012 at 12:14:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because reactions the other way are hamstrung by the nature of the system.

There's also the obvious problem that all of the so-called socialists are with the austerians on this lunacy.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sat Mar 17th, 2012 at 12:18:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't believe in unchangeable systems. Or in unchangeable directions of political parties, for what. The future is still unwritten etc.
by IM on Sat Mar 17th, 2012 at 12:20:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's fine if you're talking about five or ten years from now (at best), but that's a bit late here.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sat Mar 17th, 2012 at 12:23:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
if the socialists win in France and trigger a new Europe-wide debate on the treaties. Hollande is saying a lot of good things today.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Mar 17th, 2012 at 12:42:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Clegg was saying a lot of good things before he was elected.

Now it's clear it was all lies and PR, and his real interest is in abetting the Tory agenda to the maximum possible extent.

This has been a consistent pattern by 'left' leaders since at least the mid 90s.

Hollande is already something of a Third Way-ist. So excuse my cynicism if I don't expect great things of him. (Although I'll be delighted if I'm proved wrong.)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Mar 19th, 2012 at 05:14:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Eurointelligence Daily Briefing: Complacency watch: Why raise the size of the ESM when the markets are calming? (19.03.2012)
Hollande does not manage to get an explicit support from the European left to renegotiate the fiscal pact

According to Les Echos, Francois Hollande on Saturday managed to overcome the impression of being isolated in Europe by bringing his European counterparts like SPD chairman Sigmar Gabriel and Italy's Democratic Party leader Pier Luigi Bersani others to a common electoral rally to Paris. According to Le Figaro he mocked the ,,holy alliance" that conservative Europeans leaders like Angela Merkel, David Cameron, Mario Monti and Donald Tusk had put in place by agreeing not to meet with him during the election campaign. But the announcements about a renegotiation of the fiscal pact stayed very vague and the idea of a common ,,Paris Declaration" that Hollande would have liked to publish was dropped because of a lack of agreement on what to say on the fiscal pact, the paper writes. According to Les Echos, Gabriel said he was in favour of ,,complementing the treaty with a real European initiative in favour of growth" but he said nothing that the SPD would use its influence on the vote to force Merkel's hands. According to Financial Times Deutschland, however, Gabriel wants to wait for the French presidential elections before ratifying the fiscal pact in order to be able to force her to agree to an EU growth initiative.



There are three stories about the euro crisis: the Republican story, the German story, and the truth. -- Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 19th, 2012 at 05:28:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Holy Alliance (also called the Grand Alliance) was a fourth coalition of Russia, Austria and Prussia created in 1815 at the behest of Czar Alexander I of Russia, signed by the three powers in Paris on September 26, 1815, in the Congress of Vienna after the defeat of Napoleon. Ostensibly it was to instill the Christian values of charity and peace in European political life, but _in practice Klemens Wenzel von Metternich made it a bastion against revolution. The monarchs of the three countries involved used this to band together in order to prevent revolutionary influence (especially from the French Revolution) from entering these nations. It was against democracy, revolution, and secularism. The Alliance is usually associated with the Quadruple and Quintuple Alliances, which included the United Kingdom and (from 1818) France with the aim of upholding the European peace settlement concluded at the Congress of Vienna. The Alliance was conventionally taken to have become defunct with Alexander's death in 1825.


There are three stories about the euro crisis: the Republican story, the German story, and the truth. -- Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 19th, 2012 at 05:30:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See also: Hundred Thousand Sons of Saint Louis
The Holy Alliance (Russia, Austria and Prussia) refused Ferdinand's request for help, but the Quadruple Alliance (Britain, France, the Netherlands and Austria) at the Congress of Vienna in October 1822 gave France a mandate to intervene and restore the Spanish monarchy. On 22 January 1823, a secret treaty was signed at the congress of Verona, allowing France to invade Spain to restore Ferdinand VII as an absolute monarch. With this agreement from the Holy Alliance, on 28 January 1823 Louis XVIII announced that "a hundred thousand Frenchmen are ready to march, invoking the name of Saint Louis, to safeguard the throne of Spain for a grandson of Henry IV of France". At the end of February, France's Chambres voted an extraordinary grant for the expedition. Châteaubriand and the ultra-royalists rejoiced - the royal army was going to prove its bravery and devotion in the face of Spanish liberals, fighting for the glory of the Bourbon monarchy.


There are three stories about the euro crisis: the Republican story, the German story, and the truth. -- Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 19th, 2012 at 05:33:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Otto, Royal Prince of Bavaria, then Othon, King of Greece (Greek: Ὄθων, Βασιλεὺς τῆς Ἑλλάδος, Óthon, Vasiléfs tis Elládos; 1 June 1815 - 26 July 1867) was made the first modern King of Greece in 1832 under the Convention of London, whereby Greece became a new kingdom under the protection of the Great Powers (the United Kingdom, France and the Russian Empire).
The second son of the philhellene King Ludwig I of Bavaria, Otto ascended the newly created throne of Greece while still a minor. His government was initially run by a three-man regency council made up of Bavarian court officials. Upon reaching his majority, Otto removed the regents when they proved unpopular with the people and he ruled as an absolute monarch. Eventually his subjects' demands for a Constitution proved overwhelming and in the face of an armed but peaceful insurrection, Otto granted a Constitution in 1843.

by Katrin on Mon Mar 19th, 2012 at 05:49:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't know we were that close to success in the project to reverse the French Revolution...

There are three stories about the euro crisis: the Republican story, the German story, and the truth. -- Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 19th, 2012 at 06:03:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nobody says Fico will save us! But if a critical mass is reached - perhaps after the elections in France. So in half a year, a year things could change.
by IM on Sat Mar 17th, 2012 at 12:48:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Though he was for me the last Democrat left standing I still gave Obama six months before I despaired of his doing anything constructive about the problems with the banks and finance, so perhaps we should give Hollande at least until the summer solstice. In truth, from what I have seen of his positions on ET, I am not too optimistic of his being able to make the sort of fundamental challenges to the course and policies being followed to be able to succeed in effecting basic change.

Since the fall of 2008 I have believed and maintained that the problems with the existing system and the reasons why it must be reformed must be forcefully presented to the public  in order to prepare them to accept and then demand basic reforms. But the existing system remains a quasi-sacred order and candidates will only talk about changes at the margins. I find it hard to see that changing absent an even more fundamental collapse of that system - one that cannot be papered over with fiat currency created and given only to bankers.

At present all remain caught in the spell of the existing system. In Europe that takes the form of the myth of the EU and the Euro. It is as though the bankers have left us as wasps leave victim insects - paralyzed but alive as food for their larvae. Someone or some event must break the spell. The sooner the better.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Mar 17th, 2012 at 06:29:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama is finally beginning to make some noises about finance.

But it is an election year, so some cynicism is reasonable.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Mar 19th, 2012 at 05:17:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See here about Obama and the "Hedge Fund Democrats"
Actually, I've seen this in action at meetings where financial big wheels and professors mingle. You'd think that the people with the big bucks would be confident; on the contrary, they're insecure, because they want respect for their minds. And I know for a fact that some of Obama's big-money early backers were motivated in large part by the lure of being in the inner circle in a way that someone like Hillary, with her long record and connections, couldn't offer.
They supported Obama because as a relative Washington outsider they though he'd sell slots in his inner circle? And now after 4 years Obama has developed the Washington connections and doesn't need the Masters of the Universe any more? Is that it?
And now Obama says what anyone paying attention would: that these big-money people were, to some extent, making their money in socially destructive ways -- and they go insane, precisely because in their hearts they know that he's right.

And because money talks in politics, this pettiness, this display of ego and hurt vanity, may have disastrous consequences.

(Krugman)

There are three stories about the euro crisis: the Republican story, the German story, and the truth. -- Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 19th, 2012 at 05:25:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
From my experience, the big wigs from different elites (financial and academical in this example) are as a rule insecure when they meet, because they need each other to confirm that they are indeed important and great men. And as a rule they get it.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Mon Mar 19th, 2012 at 07:50:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
After all the purpose of power, according to psychologist David A. McCelelland, at an individual psychological level, is to feel powerful. Ain't life grand.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Mar 30th, 2012 at 02:31:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is Rorschach. The concept of 'Power' in its broadest assertive sense is unknown to the vast majority living on this planet. The word the majority relates to, even if they are unable to express it directly or clearly, is 'dignity'.

Dignity is the perception that individual life is worthwhile, giving is rewarding, and that one is not powerless to effect change where injustice is witnessed.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Mar 30th, 2012 at 02:43:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe what McClelland was trying to assess was how 'power' was perceived by those who were perceived to have it - across three cultures, but it has been >35 years since I read the work. The title of his book was Power - The Inner Experience 1975. At the time he was head of the Dept. of Psychology at Harvard.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Mar 30th, 2012 at 05:19:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Those who have power demand dignity. Those with out power simply want dignity.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Mar 30th, 2012 at 05:20:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
On this point, you might refer IM to Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister.
by rifek on Thu Mar 22nd, 2012 at 05:15:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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