Sunday Train: The Miami/Orlando Passenger Rail Project | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Orlando (none / 0)

I don't think I'd bet on it working with tourists unless prices for both the trains and the requisite buses/cabs to the theme parks are incredibly low. Remember that, even taking tolls into account, it's not going to cost you more than about 60 bucks to drive to Orlando from Miami.

A few other issues: People who aren't from Florida all seem to think theme parks are within crawling distance of Downtown Orlando. Universal Studios is probably a half-hour drive once you take traffic into account from Downtown. Disney will probably come closer to an hour.

There's also the issue of perceived safety. I'm not sure if the guys designing this know it, but the Downtown Orlando station isn't actually in Downtown Orlando. It's about half a mile south, in one of the worst neighborhoods in the country.

It would be like running a train to Liberty City in order to get tourists to South Beach.

Not to say these issues can't be dealt with, but a lot of them are more long-term issues. And this is Orlando we're talking about -- a city that makes Atlanta look like New York as city planning goes.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Apr 16th, 2012 at 12:00:59 PM EST

Re: Orlando (none / 0)

I don't know that anybody ever said that tourists were going to be the main source of patronage, nor that the service requires getting a large share of tourist trips between Orlando and Miami for its success, but if they did, they were just being talking in lazy stereotypes or repeating the hackneyed baseless attacks on the Florida HSR project.

Just like the projections for the Florida the bulk of the trips on this service will be by Floridians for business, pleasure or family trips. Tourist travel will be a bonus on top of that.

FECI can tailor the frequency to demand, since the main capital cost that is exclusive to the passenger service are the trains themselves, so there's even less "White Elephant" risk than the minimal risk faced by the Florida Express HSR system.

And of course, lots of tourists arrive in Orlando without a car, so the cost of driving to Miami for those tourists includes the cost of a rental car. If they are going to the Disneyworld complex, and then Miami Beach, among the numbers of tourists going to Florida, there will be some who are affluent enough to be able to afford not to drive.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Apr 16th, 2012 at 01:19:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Orlando (none / 0)

Maybe we're talking past each other here, because these...

pleasure or family trips

...are "tourist" trips. I assume by tourists, you're thinking of people from other states and countries.

I'm saying I don't think you're going to see much traffic from Floridians. A family of four from Coral Gables probably isn't going to take the train. You might get some traffic from those sorts of people, and perhaps kids who go away to UCF or UM.

It's fine if the lines are basically freight with a few passenger services, and in the long run it's a good investment. I'm just saying I wouldn't bet on the passenger service being very successful in the near-future.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Apr 16th, 2012 at 05:04:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Orlando (none / 1)

You are saying that with 3 hour trips between populations centers as big as Miami and Orlando, time-competitive with driving, it will be incapable of attracting 1% to 2% mode share of the total trips between the two population centers.

I think that there is no doubt whatsoever that if run properly with comfortable seating, the usual amenities, and at the promised travel time, it will be able to attract 1% to 2% of the total trips between the two population centers. Indeed, I think it extremely conservative, and it could well attract a 3% to 5% mode share, which would imply not modest operating profits, but quite healthy operating profits.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Apr 16th, 2012 at 05:25:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sunday Train: The Miami/Orlando Passenger Rail Project | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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