Of shipowners and taxes | 75 comments (75 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: If you put your hopes in Hollande... (4.00 / 7)

While Tsipiras continues to argue that Greece needs to remain in the Euro and the memorandum is toxic, Hollande responds with veiled threats of expulsion, and Rajoy sets down plea for greater European integration in a letter to Van Rompuy (ElPais.com in English)

"It is necessary to adopt decisive and forceful measures to leave clear the irreversibility of our integration project, and in particular the single currency," the letter said. "The uncertainty regarding the euro is preventing the adjustment measures many countries are carrying out to have the desired effects that they should have," the letter continued. "This situation is worsening in an accelerated manner and it is necessary to address it as soon as possible."
Rajoy made the revelation on Wednesday in Congress, where he told lawmakers that what was required at the moment is for European to make a strong commitment statement in favor of greater union before opening a debate on how best to achieve this. "The future of the euro depends on us initiating this debate," he said. "The road won't be easy but it is an indispensable goal on which we must be in agreement."

But don't worry, Germany and the Netherlands think everything is a-ok. From Eurointelligence: Germany says no to banking union- existing tools are apparently adequate

We always feared that Angela Merkel's recent endorsement of a political union was a deflection, and this fear is now confirmed. The FT reports from Berlin that German officials are now playing down any expectations that Germany is ready to support a banking union and eurobonds, insisting that the existing tools of crisis resolution are adequate.
Instead German officials are pretending that they support a long-term process of political union. We are now back to where we were before: there is a need to act fast, but the German chancellor is chronically incapable of making the political case for burden sharing. Expectations in the German media, and among coalition politicians have also been "managed" in such a way that an agreement for a banking union would come as a total shock.
The Dutch finance ministry also said yesterday, according to Reuters, that a banking union should be seen as a long-term project that cannot be implemented immediately.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 05:48:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you put your hopes in Hollande... (none / 1)

BTW what is the PSOE up to nowadays? Any serious anti-austerity voice in the party, any serious anti-government initiative?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 05:52:41 AM EST
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Re: If you put your hopes in Hollande... (4.00 / 4)

Nothing at all can be expected of the PSOE, for a long time. This is a big problem in the Spanish political scene. Besides, the United Left can not evolve into a kind of Spanish SYRIZA.

by PerCLupi on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 06:12:56 AM EST
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Re: If you put your hopes in Hollande... (none / 0)

Not even given two years of Russia-style austerity?

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 07:05:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you put your hopes in Hollande... (4.00 / 7)

We have a higher unemployment rate than Greece. I shudder to think what Spain will look like after two years of "rescue".

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 07:07:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you put your hopes in Hollande... (4.00 / 3)

The Spanish people are not awared (concienciado?). Even with 10 years of austerity Siberian, there would not be something like SYRIZA. In that situation, people would call a "savior."

I believe a consciousness-raising action is urgently needed in Spain and Europe. A Spanish Party (French, Italian, German, etc) for a Social Europe.

Now, people can feel "the crisis". If you miss the opportunity, there will be a maximum globalization, with governors servers of it.

I think in Spain it can be perceived well.

by PerCLupi on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 09:45:40 AM EST
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Re: If you put your hopes in Hollande... (4.00 / 10)

While you're probably right, I must point out that two years ago no one in Greece could have publicly predicted that SYRIZA would evolve into SYRIZA without suspicion that they are on crack. SYRIZA was polling around 3%, 15 months ago...

The IU -> SYRIZA scenario would go like this: First PSOE would have to start splintering. Then a left/sane faction would have to join the IU. Then the IU would have to seek alliance with other credible forces that would prop up its street cred which could be built by unwavering, clear and principled support of popular movements against austerity. That would involve removing any people who are too soft on the PSOE and recognizing that whatever remains of the PSOE is a political opponent, pretty much on the same level that the right is.
Then a leader with some public charisma would help, but is not really, absolutely necessary...
The problem is that at this stage there is no time for this scenario. Developments will occur at too rapid a pace so who knows... How strong is the fascist right in Spain right now and how high the level of xenophobia?

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 07:41:21 AM EST
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SYRIZA in Spain (4.00 / 6)

The IU -> SYRIZA scenario would go like this: First PSOE would have to start splintering.

Now that Spain has been "rescued" almost exactly 2 years after Greece, the situation is that the PP parliamentary group needs to start leaking parlamentarians, like PASOK did, until the government loses its supermajority and becomes vulnerable to a no-confidence motion. For PP parlamentarians to break party discipline seems unthinkable right now.

I think it's more likely that Spain's economy will tailspin to 30-35% official unemployment (60-70% youth unemployment!) and then social unrest prompts a suspension of civil liberties than that the PP will lose its parliamentary supermajority. The government has already legislated a criminalization of nonviolent civil disobedience.

But the PP base (and the parliamentary backbenchers) are right now in a state of perplexed shock both at the political/economic situation and at the government's performance (and performance art). So, who knows, there could be an internal revolt.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 08:13:08 AM EST
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Re: SYRIZA in Spain (4.00 / 4)

Since Spain has an industrial base (that Greece doesn't have) isn't the whole of Europe frightened that Spain will--at some point--decide not to take on any more debt in this crazy, crazy plan of the troika?

Are people concerned that Spain will leave the eurozone precipitously? If they are not, should they be?

by Upstate NY on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 08:55:44 AM EST
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Re: SYRIZA in Spain (none / 1)

#VivaSyriza was (might still be) trending impressively in the Spanish tweetoshere. And the hope and goodwill being projected through it are impressive. Apparently there is great internal demand for such a project.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Fri Jun 15th, 2012 at 11:19:40 AM EST
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Re: SYRIZA in Spain (none / 0)

I've seen that. Pleasantly surprised

by Euroliberal on Fri Jun 15th, 2012 at 03:04:20 PM EST
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Re: If you put your hopes in Hollande... (3.67 / 3)

In Spain there are something "worse than fascism" today's politicians are the grandchildren of grandparents, no children from their parents, ie caciquismo (perversion of the idea and the use of the power).

UI is marked in Spain, very different from what it was in Greece. The Socialist Party is also marked and no alternative leaders.

Since people from IU, from the PSOE, and new people, a new party would be required, unmarked, looking to the future.

I quit. Sorry. I have to go to the doctor.

by PerCLupi on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 10:04:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you put your hopes in Hollande... (4.00 / 4)

This is one of the problems that I see with the indignados. They could very well challenge established parties if they chose to participate in electoral politics, but there's a reticence to enter politics. If they did, you would have a Syriza type party.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 10:21:41 AM EST
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Re: If you put your hopes in Hollande... (none / 0)

I have 1/2 hour. I agree.

by PerCLupi on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 10:36:11 AM EST
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Re: If you put your hopes in Hollande... (4.00 / 3)

In Greece. it happened in a timespan of a handful of months, if not weeks or days. I note that only in the last in Wednesday before Sunday May 6, had been recorded in the polls that Syriza might end up second party.

"Eurozone leaders have turned a €50bn Greek solvency problem into a €1,000bn existential crisis for the European Union." David Miliband

by Kostis Papadimitriou on Sat Jun 16th, 2012 at 11:11:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you put your hopes in Hollande... (4.00 / 2)

Considering the record of Greek pollsters, as well as their close affiliation with the two clientilist parties, I think a better measure of when Syriza became a credible threat would be the shift in the propaganda from "there is no alternative" to "Syriza is not an alternative."

To be blunt: If a Greek polling agency about whom I knew nothing else told me that a majority of the Greeks believed that sky to be blue, I would email talos and ask him whether the result was credible before believing it.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jun 16th, 2012 at 11:19:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you put your hopes in Hollande... (4.00 / 2)

In any case, voters moved quite suddenly in Greece. And I believe that is the lesson for Spain, too.

"Eurozone leaders have turned a €50bn Greek solvency problem into a €1,000bn existential crisis for the European Union." David Miliband

by Kostis Papadimitriou on Sat Jun 16th, 2012 at 11:31:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Of shipowners and taxes | 75 comments (75 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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