Of shipowners and taxes | 75 comments (75 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (3.90 / 10)

I found the original source & translated the entire passage:

Jean-Claude Juncker drängt auf rasche Lösung der spanischen Bankenkrise \| Tacheles \| Deutschlandradio Kultur		Jean-Claude Juncker urges speedy resolution of the Spanish banking crisis \| Tacheles \| Deutschlandradio Kultur
Deutschlandradio Kultur: Aber, wenn man jetzt auf die Bevölkerung geht, Sie sagen ja, in den hiesigen Ländern, sagen wir Luxemburg, Deutschland, Frankreich oder wo auch immer, ist die Bevölkerung skeptisch geworden, ob diese Hilfsaktion tatsächlich auf fruchtbaren Boden fällt. Aber wenn man die Situation vor Ort betrachtet, könnte man sich auch die Frage stellen: Ist die internationale Staatengemeinschaft bei Griechenland zu weit gegangen? Verlangt sie zu viel?		Germany Kultur: However, if you go to the people, you say yes, in the countries around here, say Luxembourg, Germany, France or wherever, people became skeptical about whether this relief is truly falling on fertile ground. But if you look at the situation on the ground, one could also ask the question: Has the international community gone too far in Greece? Does it demand too much?
Jean-Claude Juncker: Nein, ich glaube nicht, dass wir zu viel verlangen. Vielleicht haben wir zu viel verlangt angesichts der rezessiven Tendenzen, die es in der griechischen Volkswirtschaft gibt. Vielleicht haben wir zu sehr aufs Tempo gedrückt. Und deshalb stellt sich die Frage, wie man die Konsolidierungsanpassungsphasen in Griechenland anders gestalten kann, ohne dass das zu dramatischen Veränderungen in der Vereinbarung führen würde.		Jean-Claude Juncker: No, I do not think we ask for too much. Maybe we have asked for too muchin view of the recessionary tendencies that exist in the Greek economy. Maybe we have pressed too for speed. And therefore the question arises of how to shape the consolidation adjustment phases in Greece differently, without that leading to dramatic changes in the agreement.
Aber ich bin schon besorgt, und das spricht auch aus Ihrer Frage, Frau Koch, dass wir den Griechen nicht zu viel, aber sehr viel zumuten, vor allen Dingen - ich sag das mal so - den einfachen Griechen, dem kleinen Mann in Griechenland. Den gibt es nicht nur in unseren Ländern, es gibt besonders kleine Männer in Griechenland.		However, I am concerned, and that speaks out of your question too, Ms. Koch, that that while we aren't expecting too much, we are expecting a lot of the Greeks, aboveall - I say that this way - the common Greeks, the little man in Greece. He exists not only in our countries, there are especially little men in Greece.
Und ich hatte mir schon gewünscht, aber das ist halt Sache der griechischen Regierung, dass man - um das mal salopp und etwas zu pauschal formuliert so zu benennen - die toten Griechen etwas stärker in die Pflicht genommen hätte. Hätte ich hier in Luxemburg ein Griechen- identisches Problem, hätte ich mich an diejenigen gewandt, die es sich leisten könnten, Solidarität mit anderen zu üben. Das scheint mir in Griechenland in ungenügendem Maße passiert zu sein.		And I for myself did wish, but that's a matter for the Greek government after all, that - to denote that with a rakish and somewhat sweeping formulation - that a little heavier onus be placed on the dead Greeks. Had a a Greek-identical problem[sic!] here in Luxembourg,, I would have turned to those who could afford to show solidarity with others. That seems to have happened to an insufficient extent in Greece.
Es gibt nämlich reiche Griechen. Und im Fernsehen sieht man eigentlich nur ärmere Griechen sich mit den Folgen der Anpassungsprogramme herumplagen. Ich habe noch keinen reichen griechischen Reeder weinen gesehen. Ich habe aber schon viele kranke Griechen, die keine medizinische Versorgung kriegen, weinen sehen.		Because there are rich Greeks. And on TV in fact one can only see poorer Greeks struggling with the consequences of adjustment programs. I saw no wealthy Greek shipowner crying. However, I have seen a lot of sick Greeks crying who don't get the medical care.

Two observations: one, Juncker is responding to the backlash and he is directing all the blame at the past Greek governments. Two, he omits to mention that many of the measures the Troika demanded are by their nature leaving the rich unscathed and hitting the poor, including healthcare 'reforms'.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 03:35:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (4.00 / 3)

Forgot to emphasize: the original was referring to rich shipowners explicitly.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 03:36:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (4.00 / 7)

This is bullshit. Plain foul smelling bullshit from Junker.

It was not up to the local governments to "make soup out of chicken nails".

Here in Portugal, the Troika actually spent time (God knows how much) discussing if chocolate milk, something that unfortunately is a stable in children's diet, should be taxed at 13% or 23% VAT!!!
That is how deep they went in order to have control of the austerity measures.

This could have been a joke but it aint funny in my book.

by Euroliberal on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 08:09:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (4.00 / 2)

That is how deep they went in order to have control of the austerity measures.

And, I gather, the Portuguese have complied well with these 'recommended' measures, so how successful have the Troika's measures been in generating the revenue to pay back the loan?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 09:35:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (4.00 / 3)

Oh... they sure did. They just love to be caled the "good students".

As for the result, (please act surprised) VAT revenues fell, consumption crashed, businesses closing by the thousands and unemployment soaring. Other than that, austerity is a huge success.

by Euroliberal on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 11:14:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (4.00 / 2)

I am so surprised.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 01:13:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (none / 0)

staggering, huh?

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 08:38:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (none / 0)

I'm shocked, shocked, to find that crashing is going on here.

by rifek on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:27:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (4.00 / 4)

Here in Portugal, the Troika actually spent time (God knows how much) discussing if chocolate milk, something that unfortunately is a stable in children's diet, should be taxed at 13% or 23% VAT!!!

As insane as US taxing policies are, do prefer that food staples aren't subject to sales tax. That said, it's a measure of how far we've strayed from need to "want" that chocolate milk is considered a staple instead of an occasional treat.

by Marie2 on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 12:26:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (none / 0)

Sales tax on food is not a bad tax actually. After we cut our sales tax on food from 25% to 12%, studies showed that the main benefactors were consumers of luxury foodstuffs. Better to cut taxes on low incomes!

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 04:48:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (none / 1)

Why not eliminate taxes on the sale of all fruits and vegetables? That would be a good beginning point.

by sgr2 on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 11:42:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (4.00 / 2)

Differentiated VAT has non-trivial administrative overhead.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 12:45:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (none / 0)

No sales tax on food in your jurisdiction, perhaps, but not here.

by rifek on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:53:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (none / 1)

Euroliberal:

Here in Portugal, the Troika actually spent time (God knows how much) discussing if chocolate milk, something that unfortunately is a stable in children's diet, should be taxed at 13% or 23% VAT!!!

it's the reagan 'ketchup counts as a vegetable' movie again!

it's the pettifogging quality that is so anal, that they really are that miserably shrivelled of mind beggars belief.

no wonder they make money and power their gods, it's a massive compensation.

my currency's harder than yours! it's the emotional maturity level of 12-year old boys in a locker-room, developmentally arrested, while the morally stunted adult parts of their consciousness obsess with how much they can torture the food out of their own neighbours' children to keep another penny in their wallets.

our dystopia is their crackers and caviar.

these people are seriously disturbed psychopaths who have bribed the guards and stolen the keys to the asylum.

their speeches about reform and such are ringing ever hollower, as the sting of poverty makes more discerning political watchers and of all the under- and unemployed people curious as to exactly how neoliberal economics has brought a successfully harmonious postwar continent to its bloody knees in only 40 years!

with the moon of international discontent waxing brightly before our semi-blinded eyes, you know this tide will turn.

just a question of when and how.

just...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Jun 14th, 2012 at 08:05:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (4.00 / 4)

This is anecdotal and perhaps besides the point, but I just spent 5 days in Paris eating red meat at every meal (because I try to avoid it in the USA) and copious amounts of red wine. I drank more than a bottle one night (I'm tall and can handle it). I never once suffered the migraines and other assorted side effects I suffer in the USA when I eat red meat and drink red wine. No hangover even. Not once, and I was practically on a binge. Red food dyes injected into meat and all the preservatives in red wine in America show me how toxic our food chain is, and though they may be necessary for wine in the USA, it still shows how these chemicals can impact the human body.

by Upstate NY on Fri Jun 15th, 2012 at 09:02:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (none / 1)

You could allow yourself to eat red meat (baaaad!) and drink red wine (goooood!) more often if they were organic. Even in the USA. I can attest to the improvement in the headache factor with respect to French organic vs. "conventional" wines.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Fri Jun 15th, 2012 at 09:36:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of shipowners and taxes (none / 0)

I will start looking for it. The problem is that I only drink red wine at social affairs or dinners related to work when the choice of wine is not mine. Almost all of the upscale restaurants around here do not note or stock organic wines.

As for red meat, I binged because I try not to make it a habit. And, the meals in Paris were really really cheap compared to the USA, and so was the wine.

by Upstate NY on Fri Jun 15th, 2012 at 10:07:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Of shipowners and taxes | 75 comments (75 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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