Is nuclear energy more expensive than offshore wind? | 121 comments (121 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Is nuclear energy more expensive than offshore (none / 0)

Design life is not 30 years. It's 40 years. The extensions make the lifetime 60 years.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Fri Jul 20th, 2012 at 08:48:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is nuclear energy more expensive than offshore (none / 0)

And I would submit that it's far easier to make a wind turbine with a 60 year lifetime than it is a nuclear plant. The turbine just needs to have oversized bearings and gears, but the materials in the reactor are fundamentally damaged by the radiation. Also there is the question of how much of the original plant is still in use at the end of the cycle--compared to how much has been replaced during use.

Also the claim that nuclear plant re-fueling can be timed to coincide with a low period of power demand is questionable, given that the refueling takes months. It takes, what, a day to replace a blade on a turbine?

by asdf on Fri Jul 20th, 2012 at 09:02:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is nuclear energy more expensive than offshore (none / 1)

In France, there are enough reactors so that they can be rotated out of service one by one without making a huge hole in production (and the pauperized maintenance staff tour around France as their jobs move, sleeping in caravans etc.) The homogeneity of the plant makes this fairly easy to plan. Until you get the same systemic problem everywhere at the same time, of course...

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Fri Jul 20th, 2012 at 09:17:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is nuclear energy more expensive than offshore (none / 1)

Even the reactor tanks themselves can be replaced by newer ones when the old ones become brittle. It has been done already in the US, IIRC.

Nuclear plant refuelling is always done during summer, in Sweden at least. At that time, demand is so low anyways that the slack can be picked up by our hydroplants without a hitch. And not all nukes need to be refueled at the same time. A standard refueling operation takes a few weeks.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Fri Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:53:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is nuclear energy more expensive than offshore (4.00 / 4)

Here's an interesting comparison. When hybrid cars came out, one of the techniques used to reduce fuel consumption was "auto stop" of the engine. When you stop the car, the engine stops.

Then when you need to go again, the engine needs to start back up. (Obviously it's more complicated than that!) So the immediate reaction of the hybrid-car-denier community was "that's going to wear out your starter motor really fast!"

But obviously it doesn't wear out your "starter motor" because there is no starter motor. It's some combination of traction motor or motors, depending on the system, but the old-fashioned starter motor with Bendix drive engaging the flywheel is not in the picture at all.

Similarly with wind turbines, what you have today is a pretty complicated system with high-load gearing between the hub and the generator, plus what amounts to a helicoptor rotor blade management system to deal with varying wind strengths. The gearing can be replaced by direct drive connections, and one would think that over time the blade management system could also be simplified. So there's lots of space for technical improvements that go in the direction of simplification of the mechanical system--potentially down to something with very few moving parts.

Meanwhile, despite 60+ years of investment in engineering, nuclear reactors are fundamentally complicated, dangerous, and expensive.

by asdf on Fri Jul 20th, 2012 at 02:16:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is nuclear energy more expensive than offshore (4.00 / 3)

That's probably because you don't use much air conditioning in Sweden. In the mediterranean latitudes it would probably be best in winter. After the hydroelectric dams get full if possible.

res humà m'és aliè

by Antoni Jaume on Fri Jul 20th, 2012 at 03:57:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is nuclear energy more expensive than offshore (none / 1)

True. So : we get an extra half-life. (boom boom!)

And cheap at the price : one wonders why/whether new build has to be so fiendishly expensive. My guess is that the EPR is just a poor design.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Fri Jul 20th, 2012 at 09:13:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is nuclear energy more expensive than offshore (none / 0)

I'd say that a lot of it has to do with lack of n-experienced workers and companies, and a lack manufacturing capacity for heavy forgings and so on.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Fri Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:55:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Is nuclear energy more expensive than offshore wind? | 121 comments (121 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Top Diaries

The problems with formal education

Speaking right: What an Taoiseach should say in Washington

Ambushing an Taoiseach

Net Zero Energy - March 2025

We do have the cards

Manipulating Irishness

Thomas Paine's Age of Reason

Recent Diaries

Medieval Persecution of Jews Linked to Cold Snaps

Genocide On Defenseless People in Gaza

AMERICA! the Deadbeat Democracy

America Should Know Better

Crossroads, Ukraine Loses Either Way

Like a tsunami rolling ashore ...

Breaking: A Christian In the Kremlin

Going Down!

The Inside Job to Murder JFK [Update]

Ukraine Victory In Retreat

Ceasefire Negotiations Step by Step

17th of March

Ukraine Violated Human Rights in Odessa - 2014

Rutte In the Apprentice Theatre

Rearming Europe Peace Through More War

Keith Kellogg Is Out

Nordic States Join Baltics Again WWII Redux

Goodbye NATO/USA, Welcome Europe's E5

Zelensky and the Terror State Ukraine

EU Commissioner VDL In Full Panic Mode

Occasional Series