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The fact that, in that kind of cultural environement, people do not consider as a need the use of TV entertainment or whatever only says something about their cultural values. Not about the existence of men, of man made objects and of natural resources needed to craft these man-made objects. Work, capital and resources. Economy.
I really want to make clear that "work", in my post, is not equivalent to "wage-earning job" or other system we know. "Capital" is not equivalent to "money". But I don't think it is possible to avoid looking at these three production factors, whichever denomination you use. Even animals will have to evolve in this frame. It's some kind of population dynamics study.
I prefer using terms already defined rather than having to recall my own definitions each time. Because the important thing for me is more on the discussion of the set of rules to choose, as a society, to regulate these three factors. Should we give precedence to capital, to work, to natural resources? What is the maximum amount of work that can be used at a given time? (ie: productivity, worked hours...) What is the right use of natural resources? Should we use all our knowledge to produce things without regards to the resources available? should we force a reduction of work hours so as to reduce the amount of natural resources used and have more time to do other things?
Do the notions of work, capital, productive mechanisms, etc. apply to non-human social animals, e.g. chimpanizees, rhesus monkeys, bats, bees, ants, etc., as well as to humans?
What, if anything, is qualitatively different between non-human economic systems and those of humans? Is it the flexibility of social arrangements that humans have to mediate economic relations between individuals in these groups (presumably in large part due to language and other symbolic systems)? Point n'est besoin d'espérer pour entreprendre, ni de réussir pour persévérer. - Charles le Téméraire
This gives a scope to human politics that is absent in other primate politics.
Then of course comes the invention of long-distance communication and transportation, which adds a geographic scope to the politics. But that's tacked on much later in the evolution of primate politics.
"Social" insects are arguably different, and not particularly social at all, in that the "organism" level is the hive rather than the individual specimen - a worker ant resembles a red blood cell more than it resembles a chimpanzee.
- Jake Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.
Suppose you take a troop of chimps, take their tools away and displace them to an unknown area. They will be able to recreate their entire stock of tools in more or less the same state within a very short span of time. They have all the knowledge required, all the raw materials at hand, and all the cultural structure they need.
Now suppose you do the same with one of the early Sumerian city-states. They still have all the raw materials readily at hand. They have all the culturally embedded knowledge. They have all the craftsmen and laborers they had in their city-state. But they would not be able to bootstrap a Sumerian civilization before they starved and died. Because they would not have the tools they would need to build the tools with which they were familiar. They would not have the irrigation systems that their forefathers built up over generations. They would not have the granaries to stockpile food, or the roads to transport it in from the farms. Or even the strains of food crops carefully cultivated and domesticated.
I argue that this, more than anything else, is what distinguishes chimpanzee and human politics. Because the rest is a lot more similar than most people give the chimps credit for.
But maybe the human society may "downgrade" and, whith some losses in lives, develop a new technical environnment.
Anyway, I think we are quite far away the initial posts, and I personnally have a bit lost my thread here. But it was interesting to discuss things with everybody here, as I had never really took the time to write things down. Food for though anyway.
Then again, our technological civilization could be argued to be a part of our extended phenotype - just as one might regard an anthill as a part of the ant colony, rather than a part of the ground. If one takes that view, then to extinguish a culture is tantamount to an extinction event.
Without that culture humans are just animals with unusually developed language skills. Humans as a species can survive without that culture.
But I think in Darwinian terms the persistence and mechanical amplification of knowledge are a new symbiotic genus in their own right, and wholesale extinction would just as catastrophic as any other kind of extinction.
But it will bear so little resemblance to the one we currently live in that one might as well argue that mainline humans went extinct and a sub-species evolved to fill in the abandoned niche.
In other species, individuals learn, but their knowledge disappears when they die. So each generation has to start from scratch.
A few animals have very limited shared memory.
Only humans externalise memory in physical form, so learning and culture don't just persist across generations, but become cumulatively detailed and increasingly widespread and accessible.
Tool use isn't that unusual. A few animals can share tool strategies. Only humans can share tool strategies in a way that persists long after the original inventors died.
Case 2: in chimps, tool use and learning most effective between age 3-5. A 16 year long longitudinal study.
Case 3: Archeologists find remnants of continued tool use on the same site for 4300 years.
I can learn how to do integration by reading Wikipedia or buying a book. The point is not that I'm learning from other individuals, but that the knowledge persists and exists externally and independently.
I can learn to play the blues by listening to recordings made by someone who died a long time ago. You're going to have a hard time convincing me there's any evidence of similar transmission in animals.
Tool use is not the point here.
Anyway: a knowledge exists in the brain of an individual (who has learned it). If this individual, chimp or human, do not teach it, then it is lost. Otherwise it is transmitted. Chances are that the second individual will be young (study about learning age 3-5 for chimps), so will survive its teacher: if he becomes a teacher in his time, then the knowledge has been transmitted to the next generation.
Does knowledge exists independently from a living mind? This is a philosophical question I do not have an answer to.
That's the third paper, talking about continuous transmission attested by archeological evidence during a period of time.
If you're restraining your though to transmission through a media like writing, recording and so on, then what about human oral cultures or pre-historical ones?
I feel the limit is much more tenuous and that it may be impossible to find something other than a difference in degree (of intelligence, communication, culture...) between species that are akin to ours.
personal memory -> shared herd memory -> external persistent shared memory -> abstracted external shared memory.
Each is a superclass of the previous one, and the differentiator - as I said - is that once memory is externalised, face to face transmission is no longer required, and it also becomes possible to symbolically abstract, summarise, model and share experience without having to living it personally.
That's a difference in kind, not a difference in degree. It took humans a long time to invent it, but once it was invented it made a lot of other things possible, including brain tools like computers, which not only store information outside of individual experience, but can leverage innate intelligence in novel ways.
Specifically, I'm thinking of the theory that European post-WWII Social Democracy is a consequence of two world wars in 30 years decimating the male minitaristic elite. But the effect of that did not survive the coming of age (1980s) of the generation born after WWII (1950s), because they could learn toxic culture from the "classic" writings of dead people. A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
Nobody could read hieroglyphs or Sumerian cuneiforms either. But the knowledge they embody was still there all the time, just waiting to be decoded. It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
I don't really think oral skills had much to do with decoding hieroglyphs or cuneiforms. Archaeological evidence, and other writings, of various ages, were what permitted it.
I postulate that encoded knowledge is objective and intemporal (but, obviously, contextual in its interpretation) It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
We were able to use the other writings because we knew how to read their descendants. Reading is a skill we pass on orally.
Reading and writing are enhanced language skills that can be learned after that. Humans are capable of teaching themselves to read (with difficulty, but it can be done - just as most people can learn the basics of most languages, given tapes and books.)
The point isn't that language exists, but that enhanced skills allow information to persist and accumulate outside of human brains, and to be transmitted without personal contact.
And it's not just writing. Some of the most popular language courses are spoken-word. They're recorded and replayed to order.
Again, the key difference is that they continue to exist independent of direct personal contact. Just like iPad games for kids that teach them word basics when their parents aren't around.
Just saying.
We're really bad at flying by flapping our forelimbs around, which is something else entirely.
If you want insight into those questions you're better off asking an anthropologist.
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