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"Debts" is supposed to mean "sins." Are you saying that the Greeks are paying today for this mistranslation back in the third century or whenever.

Or is borrowing from a German bank and not repaying euivalent to a "sin" in the scripture according to Merkel?

That might make a good tag line ;)

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 05:04:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
According to Graeber it was always so:

What is Debt? - An Interview with Economic Anthropologist David Graeber « naked capitalism

In Sanskrit, Hebrew, Aramaic, `debt,' `guilt,' and `sin' are actually the same word. Much of the language of the great religious movements - reckoning, redemption, karmic accounting and the like - are drawn from the language of ancient finance


Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 05:46:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is not a mistranslation.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 06:21:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In English, as well as French, "debt", "guilt" and "sin" are not the same thing. So if France were the stongest country in the eurozone, rather than Germany, we might not be having this crisis?

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 06:38:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Eurozone is a creature of Austrian economics and the Eurozone crisis is a creature of German central bank orthodoxy.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 06:46:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree. But let us speculate that France's economy was larger than Germany's.

Of course, there is also the UK, which is not in the eurozone, where austerity cannot be attributed to language. Why do, you think the UK government has gone there?

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 07:49:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The UK has gone the Austerity way because of common sense conservative economics. Reagan/Thatcher revolution and all that.

France is as committed to fixed exchange rates as Germany is. During the previous Great Depression, France was the last Western European country to abandon the gold standard. France precipitated the end of Bretton Woods by sending a warship to Fort Knox to repatriate their gold. For 20 years after Bretton Woods, France preferred a fixed exchange rate system with periodic devaluations to floating exchange rates. French politicians spearheaded the Euro - Germany had to be dragged into it kicking and screaming. France allegedly introduced the 3% deficit and 60% debt limits in the Maastricht Treaty, and had no objection to introducing the German prohibition of monetary financing as a bargaining concession to the German sensitivities.

Tell me again how it would all be different if France called the shots?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 07:57:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't feel that the current French government is so keen on running Greece into the ground and if France were calling the shots Greece would be in far better shape. Hollande seems to feel powerless against Merkel; I think he could get a lot more from her if he fought harder.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 08:04:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hollande also wants to appear "fiscally responsible" and his government was committed to destroying the solvency of the French private sector. Now that they have plunged France into a recession they regret they won't be able to meet the 3% deficit target this year, but they remain committed to the longer term targets.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 09:47:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
his government was committed to destroying the solvency of the French private sector.

Why do you say that?

Migeru:

Now that they have plunged France into a recession

France has been in recession for a lot longer than the last eight monts.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 10:04:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I should have said that France has been flirting with recession for a lot longer than the last eight months.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 10:22:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sarkozy's conservatives flirting with recessionary policies was par for the course, them being conservatives. Hollande has been a disappointment. Predictable, but a disappointment.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 10:34:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
[Hollande']s government was committed to destroying the solvency of the French private sector.
Why do you say that?
I believe you may have been off the blog last August, when I wrote The Eurozone's giant sucking sound
Take, for example, France:

If France were to bring its Government deficit below 3%, it would destroy the ability of the French private sector to net-save, assuming the current account deficit stays on trend (and it should: Germany's 6% current account surplus is as stable as if it were a successful policy target, and the Eurozone's neutral current account balance is consistent with the ECB pursuing a non-interventionistic foreign reserve policy).

Six months later, Ayrault has conceded the "unexpected" recession prevents him from meeting the 3% target.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 10:47:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To read you, France did call all the shots...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 08:08:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
France is the only EU country to have sustained an empty chair crisis, too.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 08:12:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Old De Gaulle brinkmanship.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 08:48:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So, we discount De Gaulle because he was De Gaulle, Pompidou because he was Pompidou, Giscard because he was Giscard, Mitterrand because he was Mitterrand, and Delors because he was Delors, and conclude "France" has nothing to do with anything?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 09:49:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No we don't. But De Gaulle's very personal diplomacy at the time of the Six is rather different from what followed.

If your argument is that France is and has always considered itself central to the "European project", that is not debatable. If you are saying France = Germany, no difference, then that is debatable.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 10:37:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am saying, if you take a long enough view, "the European project" has been so wedded to "sound money" and "common sense economics" that it's been "not even wrong" for at least the last 80 years.

The major (i.e., policy relevant) macroeconomic strains of thought today, Aust(e)rianism, Keynesianism and Monetarism originated in Continental Europe, Britain and the US respectively. That should tell us something: Continental Europe is the home of harebrained "common sense" economics.

Yes, France had the Physiocrats, Italy has been big in Chartalism/Circuitism, there are Marxian economists all over Europe.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 11:01:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When "neoliberalism" was launched at the Colloque Walter Lippman in Paris in 1938, there's no doubt that Continental Europeans were there in number, including French ultra-liberals (mostly from the corporate sector rather than theorists), the Austrians (von Mises and Hayek), and the future German Ordoliberals Rüstow and Röpke. There were also Brits and the eponymous American convenor Walter Lippman. The Mont Pèlerin Society that grew out of the Colloque was also international in flavour, with a strong American contingent. There was considerable interaction and exchange between elements of different European countries including Britain, and the US. This is not to say that Austrianism (and ordoliberalism) weren't Continental European, but I see a more international ultra-liberal movement -- in its theorising, its support from big capital, and its effects -- than you seem to.

A second point is that, if "sound money" goes way back, the precise project of a single currency in Europe dates practically speaking from the demise of Bretton Woods, and claims (at least the legend does) a U Chicago Canadian as its "father", Robert Mundell.

Mundell: OPTIMUM CURRENCY AREAS

It was with great regret that I felt compelled to distance myself on this basic policy issue from teachers and good friends like James Meade, Milton Friedman, Harry Johnson, Gottfried Haberler, Fritz Machlup, Lloyd Metzler and Arnold Harberger and others who supported flexible exchange rates. I found myself among such diverse company as Lord Robbins, Sir Roy Harrod, Jacques Rueff, Edward Bernstein, Robert Triffin, Otmar Emminger, Rinaldo Ossola, Charles Kindleberger, Guido Carli and Robert Roosa--and some of them would later become defectors. Of course I was happy to be in the company of all the great economists of the past who, with the possible exceptions of Fisher and Keynes, were vigorously opposed to flexible exchange rates between countries with inconvertible currencies.

Among the supporters of flexible exchange rates were a couple of Austrians (Haberler and Machlup). Among the fixed-rate crowd, a couple of Brits and an American.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:14:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fixed exchange rates are one thing. Turning internationally originated private-sector debt into a national moral story is another.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 08:12:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, I fail to see how precipitating the end of Bretton Woods could be seen as being committed to fixed exchange rates.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 08:13:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bretton Woods was coming to an end anyway.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 08:46:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Precipitating the end of Bretton Woods by being gold bugs (repatriating gold at gunpoint - sounds like Germany in 2012!) and being worried about the US national debt seems to me to be entirely consistent with the European Position at the G20 meetings in 2009.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 09:51:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You are willingly exaggerating again. There was no gunpoint (!). A minor naval vessel (not a warship) was sent to sit in a New Jersey harbour to make a symbolic point.

So De Gaulle held to gold convertibility. The Bretton Woods system was, after all, gold-based.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 10:43:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
to rhetorical excess. I am a repeat offender.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 11:04:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
:-)
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 11:07:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or rather, I should say that De Gaulle wanted to sharply remind the US that, in a system where everyone's currencies were rough-pegged to the dollar, the dollar was supposed to be convertible.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 11:06:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
De Gaulle's rationale was essentially that "zOMG!!11 US national debt! Twin Deficits! Gold!!!!!!1111^H^H^H^H"

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 11:09:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, it was Pompidou not de Gaulle.

I listed de Gaulle because of the Empty-Chair crisis (as evidence that France does call the shots - our own Jerome never tires to remind us that the day France threatens to pull out of the EU, Germany will fold again)

I listed Pompidou because of the end of Bretton Woods (with the gold repatriation)

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 11:13:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
I listed de Gaulle because of the Empty-Chair crisis (as evidence that France does call the shots - our own Jerome never tires to remind us that the day France threatens to pull out of the EU, Germany will fold again)

That's my original point; if Hollande has the cajones to do so.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:21:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not only a matter of cojones but of economic understanding, which is not in evidence in his cabinet.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:28:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Gah, that story seems to lend itself to confusion, partly because it doesn't seem to be well-documented anywhere. But Pompidou was following in De Gaulle's footsteps, and the gesture was just gesticulation. Bretton Woods was already dislocated.

As for France having been, especially in the years of the Six and then Ten, an obvious major power if not the major power in the "European project", I'm not attempting to deny it.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:46:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the dollar was supposed to be convertible.

Or at least to have a stable purchasing power, which is what the Gold Standard was presumed to insure. But we know, at least those who understand anything about Keynesian macro, that what is needed is a money supply that increases as total economic activity increases. That makes economic growth possible. Additionally, it should be possible to deliberately increase the money supply to counter private sector pull backs during times of uncertainty when all others are fearful and won't invest. Dollar inflation at least met the first requirement under the Breton Woods agreement.  

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 11:57:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It was literally to be convertible to a given weight of gold.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:17:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And that was threatened, in the mind of the sound money crowd, by the ballooning US government debt due to the Vietnam War buildup among other things, as well as by the US' trade balance reversing from net exporter to net importer (due in part to Germany and Japan taking over as exporters of last resort as a result of the success of post-war US global macro policy).

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:27:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also by the increasing importance of dollars as a parallel currency in European banking (Eurodollars), called the "dollar glut". Raising fears of well-known monsters and unsound money. Who wasn't "sound money" back then?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Who wasn't "sound money" back then?

Well, if you have a Gold Standard, sound money is the lay of the land... as in the Eurozone today.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:58:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It was also the case that the prices were rising while the price of gold was being held down by central banks. So it was in part the purchasing power of gold that they saw as being threatened, as well as the gold standard.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 03:10:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The reason people thought the gold standard was a good thing is that it was thought to maintain stable purchasing power. This obviously failed during those financial crises when gold was hoarded and its purchasing power increased, but that was somehow OK. None-the-less that was how Morgan and other bankers obtained lots of southern real estate on the cheap after the Civil War - once they had successfully lobbied to get the country back on a gold standard. They had enough of the gold that, by withdrawing it from circulation, they could create a depression. Prices fell and they bought property on the cheap.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 03:05:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Krugman has listed a few:
under the gold standard America had no major financial panics other than in 1873, 1884, 1890, 1893, 1907, 1930, 1931, 1932, and 1933
by Number 6 on Mon Feb 18th, 2013 at 07:18:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, with respect to the UK, it's now in its third recession since adopting austerity. Why is,it continuing these policies in spite of the fact that the seem not to be working? I assume there is no punnishment factor there.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 08:12:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
LEP:
Why is,it continuing these policies in spite of the fact that the seem not to be working?

  1. they're one-trick ponies

  2. dobbin is going to get run into the ground before they will admit defeat.

it's unthinkable that they act differently than they do, to change would make them look even more idiotic to themselves than they do already!
 

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 06:05:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
The UK has gone the Austerity way because of common sense conservative economics.

The Euro crisis has nothing to do with common sense conservative economics? Practically all Europe is run by conservatives.

Migeru:

France is as committed to fixed exchange rates as Germany is.

France is, and has been for forty years, committed to a single currency. Germany is committed to fixed exchange rates. That may only be a nuance, but possibly a considerable one.

Migeru:

France was the last Western European country to abandon the gold standard. France precipitated the end of Bretton Woods by sending a warship to Fort Knox to repatriate their gold.

France was as gold-standard-convinced as many other countries and wasn't all that exceptional. De Gaulle in particular, as an old conservative, held unthinkingly to the standard conservative dogma on sound money and gold, and it was he who decided on the symbolic gesture of sending a naval vessel to New Jersey, because he loved nothing better than pissing off the US. All this doesn't amount to making France Austrian.

Migeru:

For 20 years after Bretton Woods, France

...adopted the single European currency as its policy and supported the different attempts at bringing currencies into line to create it.

Migeru:

Germany had to be dragged into it kicking and screaming

West Germany would rather have kept the Deutschemark. Again, a nuance that may be considerable.

Migeru:

France allegedly introduced the 3% deficit and 60% debt limits in the Maastricht Treaty

It appears French technocrats invented the actual numbers involved, but not that France spearheaded the principle itself. Indeed, it is reported the numbers were just pulled out of the air in a frivolous way, as if the French didn't expect them ever to be applied.

Migeru:

had no objection to introducing the German prohibition of monetary financing as a bargaining concession to the German sensitivities

It seems unlikely that any party would "have no objection" to what is seen as a "bargaining concession".

None of the above is meant as a defence of French policy re the single currency, which has mostly been a tale of foolishness and wishful thinking across the political spectrum. The single currency has been a will o' the wisp leading France into the morass.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 08:43:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
The UK has gone the Austerity way because of common sense conservative economics.
The Euro crisis has nothing to do with common sense conservative economics? Practically all Europe is run by conservatives.
The Euro Crisis has to do with having encoded common sense conservative economics into the constitution. At key points, insane people have been able to shut down debate on sensible policies just by pointing to the treaties.

In the UK, you have an insane government, against which are arrayed the Bank of England's monetary policy, the FSA's Adair Turner, the Financial Times economic policy commentators from Martin Wolf all the way down... So the UK is doing much better than its government's stated policy allowed. Because it lacks the Eurozone's lemming-like unity of political purpose.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 10:41:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Agree.

But it's "common sense conservative economics" that's the bugbear.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 10:45:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's been the lay of the land for 20 years, and we would not or could not listen to those who warned us against it:
Let me express a different view. I think that the central government of any sovereign state ought to be striving all the time to determine the optimum overall level of public provision, the correct overall burden of taxation, the correct allocation of total expenditures between competing requirements and the just distribution of the tax burden. It must also determine the extent to which any gap between expenditure and taxation is financed by making a draft on the central bank and how much it is financed by borrowing and on what terms. The way in which governments decide all these (and some other) issues, and the quality of leadership which they can deploy, will, in interaction with the decisions of individuals, corporations and foreigners, determine such things as interest rates, the exchange rate, the inflation rate, the growth rate and the unemployment rate. It will also profoundly influence the distribution of income and wealth not only between individuals but between whole regions, assisting, one hopes, those adversely affected by structural change.

...

I recite all this to suggest, not that sovereignty should not be given up in the noble cause of European integration, but that if all these functions are renounced by individual governments they simply have to be taken on by some other authority. The incredible lacuna in the Maastricht programme is that, while it contains a blueprint for the establishment and modus operandi of an independent central bank, there is no blueprint whatever of the analogue, in Community terms, of a central government. Yet there would simply have to be a system of institutions which fulfils all those functions at a Community level which are at present exercised by the central governments of individual member countries.

...

What happens if a whole country - a potential `region' in a fully integrated community - suffers a structural setback? So long as it is a sovereign state, it can devalue its currency. It can then trade successfully at full employment provided its people accept the necessary cut in their real incomes. With an economic and monetary union, this recourse is obviously barred, and its prospect is grave indeed unless federal budgeting arrangements are made which fulfil a redistributive role. As was clearly recognised in the MacDougall Report which was published in 1977, there has to be a quid pro quo for giving up the devaluation option in the form of fiscal redistribution. Some writers (such as Samuel Brittan and Sir Douglas Hague) have seriously suggested that EMU, by abolishing the balance of payments problem in its present form, would indeed abolish the problem, where it exists, of persistent failure to compete successfully in world markets. But as Professor Martin Feldstein pointed out in a major article in the Economist (13 June), this argument is very dangerously mistaken. If a country or region has no power to devalue, and if it is not the beneficiary of a system of fiscal equalisation, then there is nothing to stop it suffering a process of cumulative and terminal decline leading, in the end, to emigration as the only alternative to poverty or starvation. I sympathise with the position of those (like Margaret Thatcher) who, faced with the loss of sovereignty, wish to get off the EMU train altogether. I also sympathise with those who seek integration under the jurisdiction of some kind of federal constitution with a federal budget very much larger than that of the Community budget. What I find totally baffling is the position of those who are aiming for economic and monetary union without the creation of new political institutions (apart from a new central bank), and who raise their hands in horror at the words `federal' or `federalism'. This is the position currently adopted by the Government and by most of those who take part in the public discussion.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 10:56:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When you have yourself tied to the mask so as to hear the sirens sweetly singing you are pretty much doomed when they reach in via the aural orifice to pull out your brains.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:06:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ouch! Keep taking your meds!
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:58:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Red pill or blue pill?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:59:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Amoxicillin.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 01:02:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Going to have to read that carefully.

Didn't Krugman say basically that "if you have a national currency you should also have a nation"?

by Number 6 on Mon Feb 18th, 2013 at 07:40:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.
by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Feb 18th, 2013 at 05:36:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is quite possible. Language greatly shapes the way we think -which should be a major reason why we should learn other languages even if we don't clearly need to (aka: if one is a native English speaker).

It is entirely possible that if, say, you and I had a discussion in French about the world situation, we would come up to different conclusions than if we had it in English. But of course the effect is markedly greater for the mother tongue. If a language makes a concept impossible to express, native speakers may believe that it is the concept that is impossible, not the expression of it.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 07:18:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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