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never existed.

Since historical narratives didn't happen until our gradfathers were alive.

Historical narratives have been with us for generations. Maybe not in Northern Europe, but still.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Thu May 16th, 2013 at 12:11:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And Pliny, and...

Maybe IM meant historiography rather than history?

In the long run, we're all misquoted — not Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 16th, 2013 at 12:15:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You mentioned four names, strewn about five centuries. Five Years in 19th century europe did see more (durable) output by historians.

The qunatity of historians and the reach of their published work in the 19th century had another quality.

by IM on Thu May 16th, 2013 at 12:33:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
those historians of whom you speak...

German?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Thu May 16th, 2013 at 12:37:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, you know...
Modern historiography emerged in 19th century German universities, where Leopold von Ranke revolutionized historiography with his seminars and critical approach; he emphasized politics and diplomacy, dropping the social and cultural themes Voltaire had highlighted. Sources had to be hard, not speculations and rationalizations. His credo was to write history the way it was. He insisted on primary sources with proven authenticity. Hegel and Marx introduced the concept of spirit and dialectical materialism, respectively, into the study of world historical development. Former historians had focused on cyclical events of the rise and decline of rulers and nations. Process of nationalization of history, as part of national revivals in 19th century, resulted with separation of "one's own" history from common universal history by such way of perceiving, understanding and treating the past that constructed history as history of a nation. A new discipline, sociology, emerged in the late 19th century and analyzed and compared these perspectives on a larger scale.


In the long run, we're all misquoted — not Keynes
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 16th, 2013 at 12:43:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I said most. And do you really want to claim our perception of the roman empire is more influenced by Livy than say Gibbons?

"Maybe not in Northern Europe"

Have I said anything about Northern Europe?

by IM on Thu May 16th, 2013 at 12:37:45 PM EST
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Not yet.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Thu May 16th, 2013 at 12:42:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Whats's that? Minority report?
by IM on Thu May 16th, 2013 at 01:11:18 PM EST
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"No, Livy is not yet more influential than Gibbons."

But we won't know for another handful of centuries whether Gibbons turned out to be just a passing fad.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu May 16th, 2013 at 01:24:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...do you really want to claim our perception of the roman empire is more influenced by Livy than say Gibbons?

Perhaps by Livy through Gibbons.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu May 16th, 2013 at 04:32:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Since they did treat different time periods, hardly likely.
by IM on Thu May 16th, 2013 at 04:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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