Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
"Children are physiologically different from adults."
Yeah, I know that children are physiologically (and psychologically) different from adults. I informed myself on the subject when I had to decide on a party programme. Before those conferences I didn't know it. Actually that is my point.

" the German Greens' paedophilia problem "back in the day""

You have perhaps the wrong idea of what a party conference adopting a programme does. There wasn't a paedophilia problem. There was a discussion about lifting all bans on sexual behaviour that all participants had consented to. Which automatically led us to the question if children can consent. So what you call "the German Greens' paedophilia problem" in reality was a debate instead of automatically deny this question by reflex.

Since the child abuse scandal of the Catholic Church and some other institutions and persons is in the open, we have heard many victims, young ones and old ones who now can speak of it for the first time. They have given evidence of suffering and of betrayal of trust and power. There has been nobody who accused DCB. Nevertheless you equate the two "cases". I object to that (can't surprise you).

by Katrin on Wed Jun 12th, 2013 at 12:27:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
as I too object to it.

But, we're talking about DCB, and there is a golden opportunity to impugn his name, so I can't help myself, I just can't stand the bastard.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Wed Jun 12th, 2013 at 12:41:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's just the end justifies the means by other words. And you also talked about the German Greens.

The direction this discussion could have been taken is how there reform was implemented elsewhere: who pushed for change, who had the serious debates on what sexual behaviour should and should not be permitted, how and why did the main parties come around. Can you tell us at least how things developed in the PCF? (After all, the members of the Internationale weren't exactly progressive on sexuality for a long time.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Jun 12th, 2013 at 02:28:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dany the Red is peddling policies (austerity pact) which are killing people, I figure what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

PCF history on this as regards being retrograde is as old as the hills...before my time, and I am not young. As far as the narrative (which in this case is accurate), it boils down to Thorez and especially his wife (Vermeersch) who took the lead on social issues, and she (supported by Thorez) was dead set against birth control (bourgeois tool to turn working class women into whores, a not unreasonable claim when one recalls French society at the time, women from the countryside moving to cities to be secretaries, or maids, and be vulnerable to male employers unwanted but casually accepted by societies advances)...In this way, PCF under Thorez was very much against population control, seeing it as a bourgeois tool to keep working class population under control and thereby control the working class with greater ease. Morale of the story for me is that cults of personalities and assimilated are undesirable, as this was clearly what was at work in the party at the time, as evidenced by what happened once Thorez was no more.

Once Thorez was gone (dead before I was born, I think the coins were still minted from silver back then) things evolved quite quickly, and PCF support for birth control and abortion was immediate, and Vermeersch resigned from her leadership posts (but not from the party, which she never did). Openness to homosexual rights came much later, as it did for everyone, but the PCF was in this case well ahead of everyone.

As regards DCB of course, Georges Marchais had some very choice words for Mr Cohn-Bandit, way back in the beginning, along the lines that he wasn't real lefty, that once he grew up he'd turn out to defend the interests of his upper bourgeois family, and here as usual Marchais nailed it well before his time (as he did, in amusing ways sometimes, less amusing others, on a number of subjects, Afghanistan coming to mind..)

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Thu Jun 13th, 2013 at 03:48:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Occasional Series