Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
A shift of sexual mores | 92 comments (92 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Things haven't changed that much... (4.00 / 2)
these days, he would have been held with a high bail amount, which he certainly would have been able to make, what with all the help of his friends in high places (if memory serves, the President of the Republic Nicholas Sarkozy even interceded on his behalf with the Swiss authorities...)

And these people have more than enough money to avoid accountability, as we live in the times of the accountability-free generation, of which all the elite figures I mention are proud members.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Thu Jun 13th, 2013 at 06:05:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Things haven't changed that much... (none / 0)
redstar:
these days, he would have been held with a high bail amount

I doubt that. Have you read the girl's evidence?

redstar:

we live in the times of the accountability-free generation

You surely can substantiate that a bit, can't you? The rich and powerful have better chances to escape accountability than the rest of us. This isn't new. And as to an "accountability-free generation": The nazi crimes come to mind... Or the war crimes of other wars...

Waiting for your reply. I must fetch some pop corn in the meantime.

by Katrin on Thu Jun 13th, 2013 at 06:32:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are many actual cases of (4.00 / 2)
paedophilia in the United States where bail (ignoring whether it can be posted or not) is granted. Jerry Sandusky was out on bail pending his trial (and google it, you'll see just how accountable the powerful were in his case). The crime really needs to be heinous in order for no bail to be set. It may be set at a very high level (say, a half million in the case of former wrestler Buck Zumhofe) but that's entirely my point...if you're extremely wealthy, a half million is a trifle. If you're not, not so much.

And, if you are European and a famous film director, you can count on dozens of member of the french cultural and political elite to have your back.

As for whether or not we live in an accountability free era, I have to wonder if we live in the same society. The one I live in has elites virtually everywhere being wrong about everything. Economics, fiscal and monetary policy, fear of inflation, fear of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction, the sovereign debt crisis is due to state over-spending, I could go on. And all of the powerful people, in the media, in government, at the heads of banks (which nearly destroyed us all, not that that will mean jail time for any of them outside of Iceland)...are still where they always were, in positions of power, with no accountability. Can you name me one significant figure of the elite who has paid the price for being so wrong over the past 12 years?

Your own country is going to re-elect a powerful person with 70+% approval ratings who has been wrong about most all of what ails Europe today and you are going to ridicule my assertion that we live in an accountability-free world? (And not coincidentally, when the accountability-free generation has been in their prime...)

I think that's a bit rich.
 

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Thu Jun 13th, 2013 at 07:50:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: There are many actual cases of (none / 0)
So no evidence for this generation (or rather the rich and powerful of this generation) enjoying more protection from being held accountable than previous ones. Thought as much. But on the point of bail being possible even in cases of child abuse you are right and was wrong.
by Katrin on Thu Jun 13th, 2013 at 08:07:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You yourself alluded to Nuremberg. (none / 0)
That was serious accountability.

Prior to that there are many other examples from that generation. In the US, a number of wall street financiers went to jail and forfeited fortunes (head of NYSE, head of what would become Citibank, et c.). Chamberlain was booted from power for his stupid foreign policy.

Their kid's generation? Not much.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Thu Jun 13th, 2013 at 08:46:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: You yourself alluded to Nuremberg. (4.00 / 2)
Umm, no, I didn't. I pointed at the majority of nazi criminals, those that got away. Your claim that this generation of rich&powerful gets away with more criminal behaviour than previous ones is far-fetched and you didn't back it up.
by Katrin on Thu Jun 13th, 2013 at 10:52:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: You yourself alluded to Nuremberg. (4.00 / 2)
Not really. We don't know what they're getting away with, by definition because they're - you know - not getting hauled up in court for it.

We do know that UK judges consistently pass down ludicrously lenient sentences on paedophiles and abusers who have establishment links, and that many investigations are actively prevented on establishment orders.

We also know from cases in Europe and the US (e.g. Franklin and Dutroux) there seems to be clear evidence of judicial, political and police protection of sadistic paedophiles.

And we know from the UK that someone like Jimmy Savile can make a career out of abuse, and will be allowed to do so, no matter how many victims complain. (And there were many.)

So - no evidence? Really?

If you're wilfully blind to the facts - or worse, are trying to sweep them under the carpet - you might think that.

But no one familiar with the evidence is going to agree with you.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jun 13th, 2013 at 11:11:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And what are you alluding to? (none / 1)
ThatBritGuy:
Not really. We don't know what they're getting away with...

Exactly: we don't know and can't make the comparison Redstar made.

You point at cases where rich and powerful people got lenient sentences. I am not disputing that being rich and powerful helps enormously to get away with crimes. I am disputing that the present generation has better chances to get away than previous ones. And I am disputing that getting away with sexual abuse of children has become easier than in previous generations.

ThatBritGuy:

If you're wilfully blind to the facts - or worse, are trying to sweep them under the carpet - you might think that.

My, what a rhetorical flourish. Am I meant to clap?

ThatBritGuy:

But no one familiar with the evidence is going to agree with you.

If that is so, why don't you supply that evidence?

by Katrin on Thu Jun 13th, 2013 at 01:07:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: You yourself alluded to Nuremberg. (4.00 / 7)
Katrin isn't arguing that the present elites gets away with little, she says that they don't get away with more then other generations elites.

I guess if studied (invent some metrics, find sources) the current crop would in comparision probably come in high in getting away with looting their core population, low in getting away with murders against their core population, low in getting away with murders against colonial populations, but high in getting away with destroying the biosphere upon which the civilization rests. Or something like that.

But really, the important thing is that they are getting away with too much. And as long as that holds I don't really think it is all that relevant wheter that is more or less then 19th century politicians or medival barons got away with.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Jun 13th, 2013 at 01:36:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You bought up the Nazis. There were (none / 0)
trials. Not just in Germany, but elsewhere, in the aftermath of the war. People were hung, shamed, jailed, stripped of their companies, stripped of their positions.

Prior to the war, in the United States, a great commission investigating the financial sector resulted in jail sentences as well, not to mention loss of position and stature or confiscatory taxation of the wealthy, with high marginal tax rates continuing until the 1960's.

Nothing like that of any sort is happening today.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Thu Jun 13th, 2013 at 04:24:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: There are many actual cases of (none / 0)
Jerry Sandusky was out on bail pending his trial (and google it, you'll see just how accountable the powerful were in his case).

Pffffffft.  I am informed to this day by no less an authority than Penn State fans (collectively) that it's all just a big conspiracy between ESPN and the NCAA to ruin Paterno's good name.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jun 13th, 2013 at 05:17:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A shift of sexual mores | 92 comments (92 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Display: