Post-Modern Fiscal Theory Again | 34 comments (34 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Post-Modern Fiscal Theory Again (none / 1)

Has a living income been tried anywhere?

2008-2010, in Otjivero in Namibia there was a pilot project where every adult gets 100 namibian dollars a month (50 for kids, payed to the mother) for two years. Resulting in more economic activity, less poverty, crime and malnourishment. The pilot project came about as a result of the claims that the 2002 Namtax proposal of universal living income faced.

Similar project in Ghodhakurd in Madhya Pradesh in India in 2012. They got 300 rupees a month, half for kids.

Both were intended primarily as poverty relief (hence the low sums) and as such appears more efficient then other projects. Neither has been continued or led to national projects. According to Guy Standing at University of London this is primarily because of pressure from IMF and the World Bank.

This info is courtesy of Grus&Guld, JAK Sweden's dead tree paper. JAK is a bank for interest-free saving and loans.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Jul 23rd, 2013 at 11:40:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Modern Fiscal Theory Again (4.00 / 2)

Let's do some numbers.

According to recent estimates, in Spain there are 1.4m households where nobody is working, and half a million households with no income.

The relative poverty level (60% of median household income) is about €15k a year.

So, if you decided to pay €15k per household to the 500,000 households with no income, it would cost €7,5bn per year. Since Spain's GDP is roughly one trillion per year, it would cost less than 1% of GDP to "artificially" bring all the households with no income above poverty level.

€15k per year for 2m households would come to €30bn per year, or 3% of GDP.

If you believe in the quantity theory of money, this could accelerate inflation by 3%. But it you make this into a job guarantee programme there would be additional goods (but mostly services) provided by the programme participants and inflation would be reduced.

What, we can end poverty and unemployment for 3% of GDP? Why are we not doing it?

Finance is the brain [tumour] of the economy

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 23rd, 2013 at 11:53:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Modern Fiscal Theory Again (4.00 / 3)

Because banksters would rather sit on their little piles of shit than be forced to share it with peasants.

No, really. That is the reason.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jul 23rd, 2013 at 12:08:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Modern Fiscal Theory Again (4.00 / 2)

You can become the richest person in the country by accumulating the most wealth and claims on wealth and by destroying the wealth of others. That is why the very rich are fond of depressions. All they have to do is lock up their wealth until they can use it to buy up on the cheap the assets of the newly bankrupt.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 23rd, 2013 at 12:58:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Modern Fiscal Theory Again (4.00 / 2)

You've just described the game of 'Monopoly'.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Jul 24th, 2013 at 05:53:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Modern Fiscal Theory Again (4.00 / 2)

Yes, but the game of Monopoly comes to an end when that happens. I'm not sure that's what the real life winners want.....

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Jul 24th, 2013 at 05:56:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Modern Fiscal Theory Again (4.00 / 2)

No, no, then land value tax is introduced :)

History of the board game Monopoly

The history of the board game Monopoly can be traced back to the early 20th century. The earliest known design was by an American, Elizabeth Magie, patented in 1904 but existing as early as 1902.[1] Magie's original intent was to publish a board game to illustrate an economic principle, namely the Georgist concept of a single land value tax.[2]

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jul 24th, 2013 at 07:02:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Modern Fiscal Theory Again (none / 1)

Fascinating! Too bad it would be such a legal hassle to sell an updated version that included Magie's second stage land tax and, possibly, other alternative rules. That would be subversive. Perhaps call it Monopoly Satire, as satire has some status as protected speech in the USA.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 24th, 2013 at 10:16:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The game of Monopoly (none / 0)

was a Georgist teaching tool about the land tax...

Finance is the brain [tumour] of the economy

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 25th, 2013 at 04:52:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Modern Fiscal Theory Again (4.00 / 3)

Though it would be less than €30b/yr given multiplier effects.

Indeed, whether or not it is a job guarantee program, the Spanish economy is sufficiently depressed that there will be no appreciable inflation from a 3% boost to national income.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Jul 23rd, 2013 at 01:17:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Modern Fiscal Theory Again (none / 1)

An interesting conclusion in the Namibian pilot project was that employment went up, not down.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Jul 23rd, 2013 at 02:01:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Modern Fiscal Theory Again (none / 0)

Also, the empirical evidence appears to be that minimum wage legislation does not increase unemployment.

Finance is the brain [tumour] of the economy

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 23rd, 2013 at 02:17:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Post-Modern Fiscal Theory Again | 34 comments (34 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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