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Yes, both of those are quite bad deals for society: the fossil fuel is a non-renewable resource and valuable chemical feedstock in its own right. Consuming energy to turn it into fuel so that it can be destroyed and its potential usefulness as a chemical feedstock lost forever is quite insane.

And an energy source that is being subsdized on the basis of being considered as sustainable, renewable energy source that is not, in fact, an energy source but is only an energy transmission medium is a swindle, a con-game, that should be put to a halt, since the fuel provides energy that is neither sustainable nor renewable.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Jul 24th, 2013 at 09:14:40 AM EST
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But still the problem is getting repeal of ethanol requirements for gasoline past Cargill and ADM. The problem is finding a way to get past powerful economic incumbents with destructive practices via our corrupted political process. Probably the only way is by mobilizing other powerful economic incumbents by convincing them that the destructive incumbents have to be forced to change so that all can survive. Meanwhile mainstream discourse is corrupted by paid shills in the MSM.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 24th, 2013 at 11:47:24 AM EST
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Yes, the EROI analysis does nothing as far as working out what objectives are politically feasible, or indeed if the minimum necessary is politically infeasible how to restucture the political system so that an industrial economy remains viable.

But I don't believe in silver bullets, so I never advance any analytical tool on the premise that its a silver bullet that resolves all problems.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Jul 24th, 2013 at 04:44:34 PM EST
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The comment was certainly not intended as a criticism, but rather as a statement of a dismal fact that we have to deal with. Part of the comment derived from an observation by David Yglesias on industrial opposition to bank involvement in physical ownership of metals.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 24th, 2013 at 07:37:06 PM EST
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