Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
the use value of land.

I think the majority of people have no idea what 'use value' is. And unless you're planning to throw open the big estates and country parks in the UK and allow people to grow food or put up holiday cottages on them, 'use value' is meaningless anyway.

I'll try to explain this really simply - most people do not understand financial abstraction.

They understand that they can buy stuff, or not buy stuff, and do stuff, or not do stuff.

They particularly understand whether or not they can do more buying and doing of stuff than their neighbours can, because this kind of competition is encouraged and praised as a fruitful activity.

A few understand gold is shiny, and people seem to want it, so gold is good.

Everything else will forever remain a mystery to at least 95% of the population. (Including most politicians and not a few bankers.)

The majority of fiat currency is in fact indirectly based upon capitalised land rental value.

No, the majority of fiat currency is based on faith in the future, and violence - or threat of same - in the present.

Land ownership happens to be one of the claims on resources this system encourages. There's nothing primary about it at all.

I suggest you read the introduction to Polanyi ARGeezer mentioned in today's Newsroom, because it explains all of this much more succinctly than I can.

But the basic problem with all your suggestions continues to be that you're still essentially a marketista.

I'm not. Changing units of accounts does nothing to destroy market ideologies such as the Holy Rite of Competitive Acquisition.

And it's the ideologies that are the problem, not which metaphorical fingers people use to count with.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 7th, 2013 at 09:11:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And it's the ideologies that are the problem

Classical economics pretty much culminated with John Stuart Mill and Karl Marx. In his work On Socialism Mill noted that, while the capitalists system was the most effective system known for generating wealth it did not follow that private ownership of that system was the most efficient means of distributing that wealth. Marx of course went further. That is what brought the 'neo' to classical economics.

Henry George showed just how damaging the classical economists could be in the hands of someone who cared about fairness to the people. At the same time economics was coming to be a more standard university discipline. Several of the very wealthy wanted to make certain that a version of economics was taught that was favorable to their interests. Add to that the fact that the most likely employment outside of academia for economists was in banking and in the administration of large privately owned trade and manufacturing concerns and it is not hard to see why neo-classical economics developed.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Sep 7th, 2013 at 11:05:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I most certainly am a marketista.

Just not markets with value-extracting middlemen - public or private - in them. That's so Last Century.

It changes the game entirely if intermediaries are bypassed, and that is precisely what they are doing because with conventional financing and funding terminally fucked it is their only remaining option.

There is no profit or loss or double entry book-keeping in such a bottom up networked market, but there is shared risk and reward, and there is shared surplus and there is a meaningful unit of account for as long as the market persists pending the arrival of a gift economy.

The accountancy of such a networked market is interesting.  

But I won't go there just yet. :-)

Ideology? I'm not into ideology. I'm into seeing 'what works' to do what we need to do, and seeing who joins in.

In my view we won't see a Party create Policy in future: we'll see the Policy create the Party/Movement.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Sep 7th, 2013 at 02:39:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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