Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? | 127 comments (127 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 0)

Everybody who speaks English, yes.

If I were Putin, I would happily make the bet that the locals are sufficiently aware of who is causing them pain to take rational countermeasures.

Of course, the locals may decide that "rational countermeasures" means an overtly Nazi government. But I'm not convinced that that would be actively detrimental to Russia's interests.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Mar 17th, 2014 at 03:37:50 PM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 0)

Of course, the locals may decide that "rational countermeasures" means an overtly Nazi government. But I'm not convinced that that would be actively detrimental to Russia's interests.

To the extent that they emphasize the 'National' in National-Socialist' they might be less harmful to the interests of average Ukrainian citizens than the pro-EU/pro-western 'leaders' prepared to enter into agreements with the EU. And, to the extent that they acted on the interests of the average citizen Putin may well find them easier to deal with. He could then play the 'Fellow Slav' card.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Mar 17th, 2014 at 09:55:57 PM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (4.00 / 4)

People said similar things about Hitler before 1939.

Of course, presently the problem is that both sides teem with fascists and the annexation of Crimea resembles the Anschluss of Austria.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Mar 18th, 2014 at 05:36:56 AM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (4.00 / 3)

Since the 90s, people regularly had a choice of "bad versus worse" in elections. Now we have to choose between fascisms. Ingenious.

by das monde on Tue Mar 18th, 2014 at 05:55:57 AM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (4.00 / 5)

The corollary is that a substantial fraction of swing voters thinks "it can't get worse than this", but will choose with great certainty guys who are certain to make it worse.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Mar 18th, 2014 at 05:59:39 AM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 0)

Less thoughtful voters often chose the party whose emotional response to issues most resonates with their own, regardless of the logic of where that response might lead. And in above comments I am hardly endorsing fascist parties, but rather am agreeing with Jake that some might be easier for Putin to deal with than others that might be on offer. Nor am I calling Putin a great hero, though he does seem to be the smartest guy in the room at present. And how often has the smartest guy in the room prevailed -- to the detriment of all?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2014 at 12:20:46 PM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 1)

And, to the extent that they acted on the interests of the average citizen Putin may well find them easier to deal with. He could then play the 'Fellow Slav' card.

I was thinking more along the line that an overtly Nazi government in Ukraine is eventually going to fuck up and create a casus belli for Russia. And then Putin can get to be the national hero who liberates Kiev from the Nazis for the second time in less than one century.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2014 at 02:23:41 PM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 0)

That too, though many in Western Ukraine might not wish to be rescued.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2014 at 02:32:50 PM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (4.00 / 2)

Some of them may not have wanted to be rescued the first time either.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Tue Mar 18th, 2014 at 02:35:06 PM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 0)

Now that they are feeling 'liberated' for the first time since WW II?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Mar 19th, 2014 at 09:59:58 AM EST
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Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? | 127 comments (127 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)