Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? | 127 comments (127 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 1)

Maybe I am impressionable, but I think the execution is masterful, and if the plan involved taking control of all Crimea overnight with unidentified troops to confuse everyone, then the planning itself is genius.

Maybe everyone was expecting Russia to roll into Crimea shooting and waving the Russian flag. They didn't expect them to sneak in and disable the Ukrainian troops stationed there in their sleep, so to speak.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 12th, 2014 at 01:07:14 PM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (4.00 / 2)

I think Russia had de facto control of Crimea.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Mar 12th, 2014 at 04:36:31 PM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (4.00 / 10)

To be honest the only thing I want from our glorious leaders dick waving contests is that they don't kill the rest of us, so Putin gets a passing grade at least. Plus some extra points for technical competence. Having good plans for when things go pear shaped is worth something at least.
Overall I'm quite unsure who achieved his objectives here. Most of the demonstrators probably didn't want to be governed by one of those shape shifting lizard central bankers. Putin didn't want a western stooge in Kiev. Yanukovich fucked up beyond anyone's expectation. I doubt the EU actually had any plan worth mentioning. Maybe "fuck the EU" Nuland is happy.

by generic on Wed Mar 12th, 2014 at 06:25:27 PM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 0)

Most of the demonstrators probably didn't want to be governed by one of those shape shifting lizard central bankers.

They must not have been very well informed, or else the idea that the Maidan protesters were in favour of an EU association agreement (which, by the way, will be signed very shortly) was a complete fabrication on the part of the EU officialdom.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 12th, 2014 at 06:47:08 PM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (4.00 / 5)

Well, my first reaction to hearing about protests in favour of an EU association agreement was along the line of "this is the most preposterous lie I've heard all year". But on second thought, ten years ago I wouldn't have said the EU is about spreading poverty and setting fire to the social economy. I don't think I'd have scoffed at the notion of protests in favour of joining it. Maybe they didn't pay attention?

by generic on Wed Mar 12th, 2014 at 07:27:32 PM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (4.00 / 9)

I'm still trying to figure out what happened to the EU. Or whether it was ever so and I was just fooled as a child.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 12th, 2014 at 07:28:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (4.00 / 2)

So many parameters changed while blinkered elites went on labouring under the mantra pool economic interests and the politics, law, culture will end up by following.

Finally they pooled incompatible economic interests.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2014 at 02:53:37 AM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 0)

I'm not sure that "incompatible economic interests" is exactly true. Incompatible economic aims, whether or not they're in anyone's (except for a few bankers) interest.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2014 at 06:15:23 AM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (4.00 / 3)

Economic superstitions incompatible with reality, actually.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2014 at 06:15:57 AM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 0)

Sure, but nothing stopping you having aims incompatible with reality.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2014 at 06:28:09 AM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 1)

That's certainly part of the problem, but I fear that the original mantra considered that even that would eventually come out in the wash.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2014 at 06:46:52 AM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 0)

Colman:

nothing stopping you having aims incompatible with reality.

They make reality, remember!

~~Wishful thinking~~'Confidence in the market' hushes all opposition.

Because growth.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Mar 23rd, 2014 at 08:29:24 AM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 1)

I thought we catalogued it fairly comprehensively. The death of solidarity, at every level, the triumph of national/personal interest.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2014 at 05:45:24 AM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 0)

Yes, but the institutional booby traps were laid down by idealists in 1992.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2014 at 06:14:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (none / 1)

If there had been idealists running it now we might have found different escapes from the traps.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2014 at 06:15:53 AM EST
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Re: Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? (4.00 / 3)

Remember Straight Talk from Juncker (February 12th, 2010)

He was the last surviving signatory of the Maastricht Treaty, and the last member of the European Council who was genuinely in favour of the "community method". And yet...

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2014 at 06:18:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ukranian Standoff: What's Next? | 127 comments (127 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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