What can stop Russian tanks rolling into Ukraine? | 158 comments (158 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Why tanks? (4.00 / 2)

Can't Russia use parachutists or something?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 05:56:34 AM EST

Re: Why tanks? (4.00 / 3)

At least they will be able to read the street signs. Western special forces will be using Google translate.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 06:07:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why tanks? (4.00 / 3)

I foresee Google Glass augmented reality headgear for US special forces in the near future...

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 06:08:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why tanks? (4.00 / 4)

They must make sure to set Google to Ukrainian. If it thinks it's Russian Google gives even more nonsense that usual (a few weeks ago I used it for an article which I thought was from Pravda. It was from Ukrainian Pravda....)

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 06:16:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why tanks? (4.00 / 3)

Because parachutists are light troops. The mechanized units of even the very weak Ukrainian army will be able to counterattack and sweep them away.

It doesn't matter that you and your friends are some kind of bad-ass superman Rambo guys when the enemy shows up with 50 tonne tanks with 125 mm guns, supported by rocket artillery.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 08:51:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why tanks? (4.00 / 6)

The central point is the lack of firm center of control over the Ukrainian military - the last minister of defense ordered the troops in Crimea to fight, they did not and he was fired (or resigned, depending on your sources). Will the Ukrainian military fight Russian invading troops or will they meet them with a resume in hand, expecting the same treatment as their Crimean colleagues, to be hired with higher wages and better pensions? Will they fight NATO troops? Will it matter what the government in Kiev says about it?

I bet Russia has better intelligence here then the west, but any troops sent to Ukraine from any other country is a gamble with the Ukrainian military reaction.

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by A swedish kind of death on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 11:44:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why tanks? (4.00 / 3)

Well, given the state of Ukrainian military (which makes even the Swedish military seem pretty OK), the main difference between the Ukrainians fighting or not will be at what speed the Russian mechanized spearheads can advance.

If they put up a fight, it will take several days, maybe even a week, for the Russians to reach their objectives, depending on what they might be. If the Ukrainians don't fight, it might all be over in 48 hours.

I think the Ukrainians will fight. And I think they might ask the Poles (not NATO) to race in to hold the territory west of the Dniepr, so the Ukrainians can focus 100% on the Russians in the east.

The Russian army is in a much better shape today than it was 10 or even 5 years ago. But I don't expect them to feel very happy about sending troops through Belarus just to run into the Poles. The Poles are in a very good shape.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 11:56:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why tanks? (4.00 / 3)

Let me add that even if the Ukrainians request Polish support, it is not in any way certain that the Poles will come, or that the Americans will allow them to.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 12:11:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why tanks? (4.00 / 3)

And if they take Lviv, they may not want to give it up again....

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 12:28:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why tanks? (none / 1)

Let's just say I really don't think the Poles would enjoy sharing more of a land border with Russia than they already do.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 01:52:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why tanks? (4.00 / 2)

Some of the Russian brigades are air mobile with helicopters. They could bring in artillery and light to medium armor.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 12:43:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why tanks? (none / 0)

And the head of the Ukrainian air force has stated that he will not take orders from the current regime.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 12:49:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why tanks? (none / 1)

Any source for this?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 01:59:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why tanks? (none / 0)

I thought it was in an updatae to and/or a link from a comment on Club Orlov of March 24, but I cannot find it now. It was not the Defense Minister, but the head of the air force.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 05:53:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why tanks? (none / 1)

The commenter was quoting a Spanish speaking air controller in Kiev who was sending out a stream of comments in Spanish about the military police intercepting the arms that were arriving by air for the national guard, etc.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Apr 3rd, 2014 at 05:56:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What can stop Russian tanks rolling into Ukraine? | 158 comments (158 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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