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A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 6th, 2014 at 07:23:18 PM EST
That's pretty exciting for Poles. They have nostalgia for their hohols.
by das monde on Wed May 7th, 2014 at 12:37:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The irony of Poland prtitioning ukraine between themselves and the Russians is supreme.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 7th, 2014 at 01:33:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know to what extent Ukraine was ever really a state.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed May 7th, 2014 at 02:35:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In what sense?

Post-soviet pre euromaidan I think there clearly was an entity acting with state powers from the government buildings in Kiev.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed May 7th, 2014 at 03:11:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A state-like entity that was quasi-bankrupt, corrupt to the gills, and totally dependent on Russia. More, modern Ukraine was constructed, industrially and economically, as a part of Russia. Hence the gas pipeline tension, that Russia handled with transfusions of slush and low gas prices.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed May 7th, 2014 at 03:17:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
is undeniable.

everywhere you walk, there is a gas pipe, and you know where is the source.

i think they are nuts in Lvov to think Berlin and Brussels will actually help them more than Moscow has done, but hey, what do I know?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Wed May 7th, 2014 at 08:03:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ukraine was a state in the same sense as a 2007 house flipper was a flattered real estate investor. Ukraine did not realize what it takes to be a state, and both Russia and the West were happy to keep it credulous. Ukraine was nominally the second most important USSR republic, but already perestroika (not to mention Chernobyl) showed that Ukraine is kept for a joke.
by das monde on Wed May 7th, 2014 at 03:40:24 AM EST
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I also think Putin is rejoicing that the western part wants "independence". I don't think Moscow cares about Lvov.

I hope Brussels and Berlin are ready for the new entry to the EU. It will be a quite expensive acquisition.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Wed May 7th, 2014 at 07:58:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Um....  

Look at the date of the article.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Wed May 7th, 2014 at 11:33:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, February...

Oops :P

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 7th, 2014 at 11:35:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I assumed this was you being clever.  Pointing out the irony that in February it was the the Western Ukrainians who were talking secession

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu May 8th, 2014 at 04:04:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, there have been some rumours of developements in Lviv (no other confirmation by the way, nor stories in ENglish... and I thought the other story was related. It appears in Billmon's twitter feed with the proper date in the text so no confusion there.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 8th, 2014 at 04:09:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It really seems that the crazies are running the show now.

Putin's latest move, asking for the referendum date to be pushed back, is apparently being met with anger in the East.  

And, if you have Right Sector, or affiliated groups, acting up in the West....  Remember that Avakov had been the subject of death threats... then this is an even graver mess than it was.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu May 8th, 2014 at 05:44:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But wait, I thought the crazies were operating on Putin's orders?

It's as if the media has been lying to me.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 8th, 2014 at 05:55:33 AM EST
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Putin knows the crazies are in charge, so all he has to do is say that Ukraine should hold elections as planned and let Kiev botch it.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 8th, 2014 at 06:17:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It really seems that the crazies are running the show now.
When the state fails and you have excitable people running aroung with Kalashnikovs, the non-crazies keep a low profile.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 8th, 2014 at 06:18:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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