After EU | 261 comments (261 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

FN (4.00 / 2)

I was reading FN/Marine Le Pen programme on Wikipedia (not more than that, granted). Assuming that it reflects the truth: It is a program that seems sustainable from an economical and political perspective.

I am not saying that I agree with it (that is a completely separate discussion - but being an Southern-European emigrant in a North-European country, you can imagine my stake). I am just saying that it seems workable (as opposed, for example the Syriza perspective that it can talk with creditors - which seems unrealistic to me - something we will test soon).

That makes FN very dangerous: they are not lunatics. They seem to have a grasp on the economical and political reality of Europe. A dark grasp, but still they seem to understand the flow of things...

by cagatacos on Tue Feb 10th, 2015 at 02:45:38 PM EST

Re: FN (4.00 / 2)

cagatacos:

That makes FN very dangerous: they are not lunatics.

Agreed... she is a valid leader, whatever you think about their policies, and the competition is so bland. French voters are increasingly onto the L-R scam, they don't expect Sarko or Hollande types to be trustworthy any more, let alone effective.

Similar dynamic between Renzi and Berlusconi, with Salvini taking Le Pen's role. When Left is spineless or so compromised as to be indistinguishable from the Right, then voters rightly look for alternatives.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Feb 10th, 2015 at 03:17:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FN (4.00 / 4)

Funny you should say that. When I have read FN texts on economic policy, they have always seemed pretty crazy. Sure, they make some commiserative noises about the suffering of the periphery and the stupidity about the euro, but anyone who has read Economics 101 can do the same.

When you see how the party's economic policy has shifted over the years, from "Reaganite before Reagan" to the current anti-trade views, the impression you get is that their economic policy is completely opportunistic. That's not very strange, because the Front is not mainly about economic policy, but about "values" issue, immigration, identity and the like. Thus, they adapt their economic policy to suit their needs according to the shifting fashions and characteristics in their potential constituency.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed Feb 11th, 2015 at 01:19:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FN (4.00 / 2)

Actually one of the things that crossed my mind about their economic policy is to what point it might be opportunistic as you say. Is it just noises or something they actually believe in (via the change from father to daughter)? I surely am not informed to know.

I actually see (again, just is what on wikipedia, nothing more - so take this view with a grain of salt) their proposals as coherent viewl. It says a lot about the current environment that what they say makes sense against the "competition" for example:

SYRIZA's apparent belief that they can negotiate seems to me more pie in the sky (I would love to be proven wrong)
And what about the case of the current neo-lib establishment and their views of "expansionary austerity"?

So, FN's economic views might be problematic (or just plain opportunistic), but I think many of the alternatives are just fairy tales (and in some cases, very dark fairy tales).

I find it worrying that the least crazy economic view is being put forward by an organization like FN. Terrifying, actually.

by cagatacos on Wed Feb 11th, 2015 at 06:57:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FN (4.00 / 7)

I think the FN's economic policy is about as relevant as, say, Ennahda's in Tunisia. Ennahda, being the religious party, tried to apply religious doctrine to the subject, and it turned out that neither the Koran nor the Hadiths have much to say about running a modern economy. With the FN it would (will?) be the same : they can say what they want about the economy, but that's not what is important to them, and they will be completely clueless about how to manage it, with disastrous results.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Wed Feb 11th, 2015 at 07:14:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FN (4.00 / 6)

Syriza's stance is to negotiate and not back down. That leaves two outcomes, either the austeritarians fold or they make reality of their threats to kick Greece out of the euro. Either way Greece will again have the freedom to decide their own economic policy.

Given that just leaving the euro is impopular in Greece, I think negotiating hard and looking like you earnestly expect the opponent to fold is the best strategy possible. Like it was designed by someone who is good at game theory.

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by A swedish kind of death on Wed Feb 11th, 2015 at 03:42:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FN (none / 0)

A swedish kind of death:

I think negotiating hard and looking like you earnestly expect the opponent to fold is the best strategy possible. Like it was designed by someone who is good at game theory.

It's a 'last-to-blink' ploy, like two cars hurtling towards each other with the drivers gambling on the other's propensity for valuing survival over ~~machismo~~ being brave.

Someone's going to have to climb down from their position and eat humble pie, or it's a duel between Schauble and Varoufakis to the political death of one or the other, (or possibly both?)

Obviously games like this really should belong to history, they have no place in modern times.

Having said that, the OK corral factor is riveting in a gladiatorial kind of way, with the future survival of so many hanging on the result...

David/Goliath redux.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Feb 17th, 2015 at 08:03:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FN (none / 1)

" economic policy is completely opportunistic"

Because situation has changed, Reagan's views of economic policies have been implemented by EU and UMP/PS both present it as the only path, they only wish to debate on side/inconsequential societal issues.

by fredouil (fredouil@gmailgmailgmail.com) on Wed Feb 11th, 2015 at 08:40:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

After EU | 261 comments (261 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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