Did Schäuble win? | 258 comments (258 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Did Schäuble win? (4.00 / 2)

Stepping back a little, the whole discussion is nonsense, from top to bottom. The economic discipline[1] being imposed by the right across the EU is nonsensical and counterproductive and is being sold by appeal to nonsensical nationalist, xenophobic, moralistic and essentialist "arguments'. The German establishment have not been the slightest bit afraid to indulge in that sort of propaganda in order to impose their will[2].

In that context, raising nonsensical issues like ancient debts doesn't seem so unreasonable. That the German establishment is outraged that anyone would have the cheek to mention their own past foibles and that they can't or won't understand why everyone is so upset at them is at least as idiotic.

Getting upset at the lazy Greeks - who relatively recently escaped their own little military dictatorship, don't forget - for reacting in kind demonstrates something of an empathy failure. But then the right doesn't do empathy.

So sure, calling for war reparations is idiotic, but it's in the context of opponents who think you can cut your way out of a depression and deny that people are dying as an inevitable result of their actions, which is possibly worse than idiotic.

[1] In the whips, chains and leather sense.

[2] Better on immigrants than (say) the Brits, but that's a pretty low bar.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 07:22:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Schäuble win? (4.00 / 3)

But neither IM (an apparent left-wing Social Democrat) nor Katrin (apparently in the wilderness left of the Greens and the Left Party) can be described as part of "the right" or "The German establishment". The above doesn't do justice to their respective positions in the debate however I disagree with them.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 12:40:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Schäuble win? (none / 0)

And that is an indicator of the depth of the problem.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 01:12:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Schäuble win? (none / 1)

I wasn't suggesting it represented their positions at all.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 01:12:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Schäuble win? (none / 0)

The "the whole discussion is nonsense" part made me think so.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 01:44:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Schäuble win? (none / 1)

I meant the larger discussion. At EU level.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 02:01:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Schäuble win? (none / 0)

"So sure, calling for war reparations is idiotic, "

It is and context doesn't help. Mostly because you here forget the existence of other eurozone countries outside Germany and Greece. Why should "second world war something, something2, play e. g. in Belgium?

by IM on Fri Feb 27th, 2015 at 03:25:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Schäuble win? (none / 0)

Last I read Belgium wasn't in need of debt relief which was denied by Schäuble.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Feb 27th, 2015 at 03:37:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Schäuble win? (none / 0)

Exactly. It is a creditor in regard to greece. So how will this talking about reparations help Greece vis a vis them?

by IM on Fri Feb 27th, 2015 at 03:41:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Schäuble win? (none / 0)

LOL. Although Overtveldt is part of the club, last I heard it wasn't him who made pacta sunt servanda arguments and took an uncompromising position but Schäuble. (And a debt settling with Germany alone would of course already go a long way to improve the situation.)

Why do you defend Schäuble? He is not on your party.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Feb 27th, 2015 at 04:18:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Schäuble win? (none / 0)

It is very convenient for the other eurozone countries, ism't it? Do you really want to claim that Finland, the Netherlands and Slovakia etc were on the brink to strike half of Greece's debt but big bad Schäuble prevented it?

How do you think that the "we had it bad in world war II and need a special dispensation" argument will play in Slovakia?

And were exactly did I defend Schäuble?

My position is that the war debts stunt is an rather idiotic move. Karl Marx or cardinal Marx as german finance minister wouldn't change that.

by IM on Fri Feb 27th, 2015 at 04:30:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Schäuble win? (none / 1)

"And a debt settling with Germany alone would of course already go a long way to improve the situation."

Yes. Unicorns will ride on rainbows. sparkling unicorns.

by IM on Fri Feb 27th, 2015 at 04:37:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Schäuble win? (4.00 / 2)

Perhaps you may have a point. In the debate today second world war was mentioned by

...Schäuble.

by IM on Fri Feb 27th, 2015 at 04:39:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Schäuble win? (4.00 / 3)

There was another war related issue in Belgium, back in 2011:

Germany tax levy on Belgian Nazi slave labourers provokes fury - Telegraph

Last week demands for hundreds of euros from tax authorities in the German state of Brandenburg began to land on the doormats of surviving "dwangarbeiders" or their widows.
"It hits me not only financially but emotionally," Simone De Vos, 84, the widow of a forced labourer told the Gazet Van Antwerpen.
"My late husband had anxiety attacks for decades after his time in Germany. It is outrageous that the Germans now want money back."
According to media reports in Belgium, the German authorities last year passed a law stating that pensions for former slave labourers would be taxed at the rate of 17 per cent.
The tax has been applied retroactively from 2005 meaning those Belgian survivors of Nazism or their widows awarded pensions by Germany as a form compensation now face large bills.

by Bernard (bernard) on Wed Mar 11th, 2015 at 03:21:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Schäuble win? (none / 1)

Holocaust survivors who were forced to work in ghettos receive monthly stipend from government

Some 8,400 Holocaust survivors who lived through forced labor in the ghettos established by the Third Reich have received compensation from the German government recently, and 22,000 will be paid similar dues, Yedioth Ahronoth reported [in October 2010].
The German Labor and Social Affairs Ministry will compensate the survivors or, if they have passed away, their family members, with a total sum of half a billion dollars [...]
The German government approved the 'Ghetto Pension Law' in 2002, stipulating that survivors who worked in ghettos under Nazi occupation are eligible for a monthly stipend and retroactive payments from 1997.
Since then, some 60,000 claims have been filed by Holocaust survivors, half of them in Israel. Around 93% were turned down, but in June the German Supreme Court overturned the decisions, making the survivors eligible for compensation.

Forced labour under German rule during World War II
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Controversy over compensation
The German Forced Labour Compensation Programme was established in 2000; a forced labour fund paid out more than 4.37 billion euros to close to 1.7 million of then-living victims around the world (one-off payments of between 2,500 to 7,500 euros). Germany Chancellor Angela Merkel stated in 2007 that "Many former forced labourers have finally received the promised humanitarian aid"; she also conceded that before the fund was established nothing had gone directly to the forced labourers.

Thus, a resolution of the forced labour under Nazis is pretty new. In particular, the victims from the Baltic states were receiving some compensation from Germany and Austria. In turn, the Baltic states are completing compensation to Jews for lost property, assets.

by das monde on Wed Mar 11th, 2015 at 04:42:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Did Schäuble win? | 258 comments (258 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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