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I was puzzled to discover that, when you apply for a position in an American organisation, you are asked to identify your race. Here is the list, picked up from a recruitment page of an organisation:
  • None selected
  • White (Not Hispanic or Latino)
  • Hispanic or Latino
  • Black or African-American (Not Hispanic or Latino)
  • American Indian or Alaska Native (Not Hispanic or Latino)
  • Asian (Not Hispanic or Latino)
  • Two or More Races (Not Hispanic or Latino)
  • Native Hawaian or Other Pacific Islanders (Not Hispanic or Latino)
  • Choose not to disclose

....

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Mon Jun 15th, 2015 at 09:05:25 AM EST
Hispanic or Latino is peculiar because in principle you can be Hispanic/Latino and any of the other categories simultaneously, but that would be too confusing.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 15th, 2015 at 09:07:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And of course there's the question as to whether you are Hispanic or not....
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Mon Jun 15th, 2015 at 09:32:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But there's an or, so it's whether you are Hispanic, or else Latino, or else both Hispanic and Latino, on the one hand, or neither Hispanic nor Latino, on the other.

Except the or means "or sometimes referred to as Latino", so the critical or is embedded in the definition ... from an EOC definitions from a University of Washington webpage, Hispanic or Latino: A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Jun 16th, 2015 at 09:49:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bolded the wrong or: "... culture or origin ..."

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Jun 16th, 2015 at 09:53:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This or something very similar is quite standard.

And totally insane. On principle I refuse to answer any of this nonsense.

Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other. -- Dr Johnson

by melvin (melvingladys at or near yahoo.com) on Mon Jun 15th, 2015 at 09:15:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At least they have dropped 'Caucasian', which was really confusing if one had enough geography to know where that is!

If...

'White power' (really epidermically pink-ish) has a better ring than 'Caucasians for ever!' which sounds like an event McClain would jump on a jet for, way out in the petro-rich steppes somewhere, somewhere all the place names had at least eight syllables and started with weird letters like T and K.

I wonder who chooses not to disclose? Roswellians? Lizards? Alpha Centaurians?

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jun 15th, 2015 at 10:00:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
melo:
I wonder who chooses not to disclose? Roswellians? Lizards? Alpha Centaurians?

Those protesting the system, me thinks.

I just pondered the list and wondered where for example South Africans of Indian descent fits in. The list is such a mix of geography, skin color, culture and language. If they had a cathegory based on religion (for example jewish or muslem) I think they would have covered all the big bases of dividing people into 'races'.

by fjallstrom on Tue Jun 16th, 2015 at 03:12:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you don't disclose you get treated as "white" for all intents and purposes, since the point of this data gathering is affirmative-action programs.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2015 at 04:17:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
South Africans of Indian descent? Heck, Indians of Indian descent are often in the category 5b
* Asian (Not Hispanic or Latino)
  * (but not the ones you're thinking of)

This is such a pre-9/11 legacy list, since the list tends to imply that Arabs are "White", unless they are like my wife's Algerian friend and are North African Arabs, in which case if he becomes an American, he would literally be African-American, but category 3b,
* Black or African-American (Not Hispanic or Latino)
  * (that's or, not and, and not the ones you're thinking of)


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Jun 16th, 2015 at 09:39:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And then what about Ethiopians? I heard of several Ethiopian university students who emphatically protested being lumped together with sub-Saharan Africans under "blacks" in spite of skin colour and shared continent (focusing on the Semitic language family and early Christian heritage).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jun 16th, 2015 at 03:54:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Similar to "northern" Sudanese ... the list itself is a mess because the US is a Common Law country with Legislated acts pasted on top, so there is a series of laws and then judicial rulings on what the laws mean that result in that hodge podge, and so it in part picks up groups that have a large enough representation in the US to have been the source of plaintiffs in successful civil rights lawsuits.

Or, IOW, if an "Ethiopian American" wants to maximize their change at academic assistance, they should tick the "African American or Black" box and under the breath mutter, "by which I mean American with ancestry from a country located in Africa".

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Fri Jun 19th, 2015 at 02:26:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Looking at the examples above, it may be a good thing that ethnic statistics are not used in France (even though this ban is a controversy in itself), especially for the growing number of people of mixed ethnicity/national origin.
by Bernard (bernard) on Sun Jun 21st, 2015 at 12:25:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's like in prison.  There's the white gang, the black gang, and the hispanic gang.  If you don't fit, you self-identify.  But you have to join.
by rifek on Mon Jun 22nd, 2015 at 10:20:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In US prisons, you mean? Gangs in France are not ethnic based but more like neighborhood based; same for rappers.
by Bernard (bernard) on Mon Jun 22nd, 2015 at 02:08:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, US prisons.
by rifek on Tue Jun 23rd, 2015 at 03:29:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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