Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
My key argument is not that any particular type of control would be automatically better. No way of organizing a gouvernment is automatically good.

The key point of democracy is not that it creates automatically good outcome, but that it provides a path to change a given situation. With the current EP in charge would be no better then it is now. But it would create a pan-european way for democratic change.

You yourself have criticized the nationalized discourse on this site. But there is a reason for this. On the level of the nation we know how to create democratic change.

by rz on Thu Jul 16th, 2015 at 01:37:34 PM EST
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My argument is that the composition of the governing council of the ECB and especially the majority of the government council is not independent from the political majorities in the Eurozone countries. With some lag it tends to reflect the majorities.
by IM on Thu Jul 16th, 2015 at 02:09:15 PM EST
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I am sorry that due to lack of time I can not fully engage in this debate. Your argument has certainly merit.

But Euro or not, in the present economical situation I fear that radical monetary action will be necessary to stave of disaster. This will require a different set of rules for the ECB or any national central bank, with article 123 being the most important rule which needs to be changed.

Democratic control of the ECB might not actually produce my desired outcome of course. And I might be wrong on the economics, too!

But then let me also say that on a very fundamental level I think that the ECB needs to be an institution which is established by a law/directive of the EP.

It can in fact be established as independent. But the final say should be with the EP. I believe this fully independent of outcome. If we want to have a true pan European economy we need pan European democracy.

issues we fight over should not pit countries against each other, but political movements.

by rz on Thu Jul 16th, 2015 at 02:35:52 PM EST
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Except if the ECB and Eurogroup is allowed to depose member state governments, then they control who is appointed.
by fjallstrom on Mon Jul 20th, 2015 at 11:52:05 AM EST
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It begins to sound like the loop of power in the Iranian Republic.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 20th, 2015 at 03:45:47 PM EST
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Not that again.
by IM on Thu Jul 23rd, 2015 at 07:54:15 AM EST
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No counter argument then?
by fjallstrom on Fri Jul 24th, 2015 at 05:26:21 AM EST
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You are imagining things. Your buddy Berlusconi had already lost his parliamentary majority. In parliamentary democracies the parliament can remove governments. And so on.
by IM on Fri Jul 24th, 2015 at 05:53:45 AM EST
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Berlusconi is no friend of mine, and I don't see why you would suggest that.

Anyway, I was not refering to Italy, but to Greece. With the current deal in place, the Greek parliament is reduced to a rubber stamp department of the Troika.

The Euro-Summit `Agreement' on Greece - annotated by Yanis Varoufakis | Yanis Varoufakis

The government needs to consult and agree with the Institutions on all draft legislation in relevant areas with adequate time before submitting it for public consultation or to Parliament [i.e. Greek Parliament must, again, after five months of short-lived independence, become an appendage of the Troika - passing translated legislation mechanistically.]

And, furthermore the Greek government must own their austerity:

The Euro-Summit `Agreement' on Greece - annotated by Yanis Varoufakis | Yanis Varoufakis

In this context, the ownership by the Greek authorities is key [i.e. the Syriza government must sign a declaration of having defected to the troika's `logic'], and successful implementation should follow policy commitments.

Taken together, this limits the possible governments of Greece to governments that are pro austerity and accepts the Troika writing the laws of Greece. On pain of economic blockade through a banking system made illiquid.

by fjallstrom on Fri Jul 24th, 2015 at 02:03:07 PM EST
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Are you in the wrong thread?
by rz on Fri Jul 24th, 2015 at 03:25:53 PM EST
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by IM on Fri Jul 24th, 2015 at 04:10:02 PM EST
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