1930s in social media | 91 comments (91 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

"This is interesting for two reasons: one, Raschke acknowledges (even if passingly) the uninhibited xenophobic anti-Greece hate-mongering "

Does she? Read again:

"This started with Ukraine and Greece and ´"

In other word this came from people thinking themselves ion the left. Not that Putin-supporters are in any way on the left...

It is fascinating that you detect xenophobia only in Germany and only in social networks.

Quite a walk in the park in other countries , what?

Take your last example: The technique of swatting was actually invented in the US.

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 05:13:36 AM EST

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 1)

It is fascinating that you detect xenophobia only in Germany and only in social networks.

LOL, blatantly wrong on both counts. And all your other comments can only be characterised as derailments. Are you incapable of discussion without completely distorting your detractors' views?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 05:22:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

"derailment", that I learned on facebook too, is the typical excuse of conspiracy theorists and other losers as soon as I shoot holes in their arguments. Perhaps you could respond on the issues instead of grunt lol and get personal as usual.

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 05:38:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

Are you incapable of discussion without completely distorting your detractors' views?

Back to you. Aside from derailment and whining about nationalism - always the "nationalism of others, of course - you haven't engaged with a single argument yet.

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 05:41:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (4.00 / 2)

It is fascinating that you detect xenophobia only in Germany and only in social networks.

IM's unintentional comedy, again.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 05:50:20 AM EST
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Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

arguing on the merits, as usual.

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 05:57:41 AM EST
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Re: 1930s in social media (4.00 / 4)

DoDO is Hungarian and has criticised Hungarian xenophobia loudly and often.

Your interventions in this thread are an example of not arguing on the merits.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 06:17:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (4.00 / 5)

The hallmark of nationalist commentators here is that they only ever register criticism of their own group. You can ridicule and eviscerate every other government, media sphere and people and they'll never notice, but criticise their in-group and they'll complain you're picking on them.

It's always been so.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 06:35:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

shouting "nationalist" isn't an argument either.

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 06:49:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

No, it's an observation. And a flag indicating that there's no real point engaging, the other party is in defence mode and can't hear you.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 07:00:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

Rather an cheap excuse to evade any engagement.

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 07:11:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

So much for "no name calling" Hypocrite.

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 05:59:13 AM EST
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Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

Do I have to enumerate all the times you have engaged in name-calling and ad-hominem in this thread alone, while accusing others of same?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 06:17:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

Yes. You won't find any example.

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 06:26:54 AM EST
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Re: 1930s in social media (none / 1)

I think you've done enough to defeat your own cause.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 06:29:35 AM EST
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Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

Another non-argument.

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 06:45:12 AM EST
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Re: 1930s in social media (none / 1)

"We're not as bad as the US!"

Congrats-a-fucking-lations.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 06:39:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

No, but some things are rather international. And swiftly imported by right-wingers of other countries

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 06:47:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 1)

IM:

you detect xenophobia only in Germany

Did you bother to read DoDo's seed comment identifying xenophobia first and foremost in his own country, Hungary?

I used to be afew. I'm still not many.

by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 08:45:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

In the comment, not the diary. And I still think his implicit claim, that Germany moves into a FIDESZ/Jobbik direction, is wrong. And I have pointed out, why.

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 08:49:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (4.00 / 2)

IM:

but some things are rather international. And swiftly imported by right-wingers of other countries

You have certainly pointed that out.

I used to be afew. I'm still not many.

by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 08:56:05 AM EST
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Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

So?

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 12:24:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

So do you consider Germany as one of those "other countries" or not?

I used to be afew. I'm still not many.

by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 12:46:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

Of course. So?

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 12:47:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (4.00 / 6)

In the comment, not the diary.

What kind of excuse is that? You made a general claim about me (which you should know to be wrong), not a claim about the diary body. Besides, the diary body itself contains a reference to Britain and the Netherlands... and we haven't even mentioned my supposed blindness to off-line xenophobia (incidentally, also referred to in the diary body).

This obviously never appeared to you, but the a propos of the diary was simply that I read the quoted articles in quick succession. If you have read similar pieces in French or Italian media, you are free to share them, too. (Supposing you read them like I read German media.)

Now, getting back to the subject matter: why is it that you spend so much time insulting people at a small international blog without influence, rather than fighting this new wave of xenophobia, on major German news sites or off-line?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 10:59:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

"Now, getting back to the subject matter: why is it that you spend so much time insulting people at a small international blog without influence"

That is our subject matter? And cheap trolling too: If I waste my time here, what are you doing here?

"rather than fighting this new wave of xenophobia, on major German news sites or off-line?"

Mere assumptions and rather vile ones too. How could you know that?

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 12:15:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

IM:

I still think his implicit claim, that Germany moves into a FIDESZ/Jobbik direction, is wrong. And I have pointed out, why.

I haven't found in your comments where you discuss that "implicit claim" and point out why it's wrong. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

I used to be afew. I'm still not many.

by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 12:46:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1930s in social media (none / 0)

Here:

http://www.eurotrib.com/comments/2015/8/11/3308/36681/11#11

and here:

http://www.eurotrib.com/comments/2015/8/11/3308/36681/26#26

and here:

http://www.eurotrib.com/comments/2015/8/11/3308/36681/3#3

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 01:00:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks (4.00 / 3)

In what way do those establish or contradict an "implicit claim" in DoDo's writing?

You do argue against the title "1930s in social media" by saying that in the '30s the racism was in the (German) mainstream media, which is true, (though I'd add that it's possible that the role of social media was at least partly played at the time by public meetings, rallies, beerhall meetings, youth organisations, etc). I'd agree that the 1930s parallel can be strained. However, it's not as if today's mainstream media are blameless, to take mass-circulation "news"papers like Bild for an example, or similar huge circulation outlets in the UK.

But I still don't see the Fidesz/Jobbik "implicit claim", or your refutation of it.

I used to be afew. I'm still not many.

by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 03:24:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks (4.00 / 2)

The parallel to the 1930s may be strained, but it's also a headline in Heinrich Schmitz's "capitulation": Eine Kapitulationserklärung: Seite 2 - Vieles erinnert an die 1930er Jahre.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 12th, 2015 at 04:06:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks (none / 0)

Understandable in his Situation, but still wrong.

He is rightly worried that his petition only draws 55.000 supporters, but in the flood of online petitions that is still a good number.

by IM on Wed Aug 12th, 2015 at 05:53:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks (4.00 / 2)

He doesn't talk about the 1930s because his petition is not getting enough support. Or not principally. The reference to the 1930s is about something else. First DoDo's "reluctance of personal friends to take risks against the angry mob". And then

Es sind ja auch nur die leeren Flüchtlingsheime die brennen, nicht unsere Häuser. Und wenn als nächstes die Flüchtlinge selbst brennen, dann geht uns das doch gar nichts an. Wir gucken lieber DSDS und außerdem fängt nächste Woche ja die Bundesliga wieder an. ,,Lass mich doch in Ruhe mit Deinem Politkram, uns tut doch niemand was. Übertreib doch nicht. Die Gefahr sind doch nicht die besorgten Bürger, die Gefahr ist der Islam, der Ami, der Jude, der Euro, der Fremde."
Ja, mit Ausnahme von Euro, DSDS und Bundesliga, wird man Ähnliches in den 30er Jahren auch gehört haben.

It's only empty refugee homes to burn, not our houses. And when next the refugees themselves burn, it will also be none of our concern. We prefer to watch DSDS ["Germany's got Talent" (?)] and moreover the Bundesliga bagins next week. "Leave me in peace with your politics, nobody is doing anything to us. Don't overreact. The danger is not the 'concerned citizens', but Islam, the American, the Jew, the Euro, the foreigner"."
Yeah, with the exception of the Euro, talent shows and the Bundesliga, one would have heard very similar things in the 1930s.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 12th, 2015 at 06:42:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks (none / 0)

"We prefer to watch DSDS ["Germany's got Talent" (?)] and moreover the Bundesliga bagins next week. "

High brow nonsense. I bet there are a lot of refugee helpers who watch cheap Entertainment, includng Football. Perhaps even together with refugees. Who after all are human beings too and not just abstractions.

"It's only empty refugee homes to burn, not our houses. And when next the refugees themselves burn, it will also be none of our concern."

Well, not in my name.

by IM on Wed Aug 12th, 2015 at 07:11:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks (none / 0)

You do argue against the title "1930s in social media" by saying that in the '30s the racism was in the (German) mainstream media, which is true,

And that mainstream media in most european countries would never take the positions it did take in thirties is a qualitative difference.

(though I'd add that it's possible that the role of social media was at least partly played at the time by public meetings, rallies, beerhall meetings, youth organisations, etc).

Different expressions of the same underlaying ideology. But the expressions you mentioned demand a lot more engagement. Another qualitative difference.

"I'd agree that the 1930s parallel can be strained."

Or is simply wrong.

"However, it's not as if today's mainstream media are blameless, to take mass-circulation "news"papers like Bild for an example, or similar huge circulation outlets in the UK."

Again, much worse in the nineties. Especially if we look at not just Bild, but also e. g. Spiegel.

"But I still don't see the Fidesz/Jobbik "implicit claim", or your refutation of it. "

If you don't want to see...

by IM on Wed Aug 12th, 2015 at 06:03:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

1930s in social media | 91 comments (91 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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