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I have censored myself on Facebook here in the USA because I don't want to get into vituperative flame wars about abortion as the Repugnant Party here slides over into no abortions, no exceptions, no value to the lives of women campaign policies.

Having a couple of Republican Facebook friends, I notice that whenever I say something critical of the Party's policies, there is an almost immediate personal attack.  The object is to insult me, the person, without any real response to the issue or my criticism of it.  

I am more careful now as a) I don't want to get caught up in such a waste of time and b) I don't want to set myself up as a target.

Watching the EU refugee situation from a distance, partially because it's a clear result of US policies in the Middle East and because it's a global problem which will only get worse as climate change kicks in harder.

Time to reread Sebastian Haffner's Defying Hitler?


Solar IS Civil Defense

by gmoke on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 04:58:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Time to unfriend your Republican friends.  Anyone who responds to a policy debate with a personal attack needs to grow up.  The problem, to date, is that there have been no consequences for those who mouth right wing or racist stupidities, and such stupidities will continue until those consequences mount.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 07:40:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The only person I unfriended on Facebook was someone I know fairly well who, at the height of the Iraq Stupidity, was making "jokes" that felt more like threats.

Now I ignore the personal insults (although I'm surprised why people feel the need to argue by insult and play debate as a blood sport to  hurt your feelings rather than destroy your arguments) and try to be measured and polite.  So far, that's worked in keeping a dialogue going.

I'm looking for places of agreement, if at all possible.

Solar IS Civil Defense

by gmoke on Wed Aug 12th, 2015 at 10:05:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Aug 12th, 2015 at 07:32:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Propaganda works.  

Goebbels and the Nazis learned quite a lot from Edward L Bernays and Ivy Lee.  They tapped into something deep that's still active.

We are seeing the same thing here with "Mexican" migrants.  Some Republicans even approach exterminationist rhetoric towards Democrats as well.  Everybody is the enemy or the ENEMY on the eve of Armageddon, and many here take the Bible literally (at least in public) and are primed for the Second Coming, The Rapture, and Heaven.  Permanent crisis for the adrenaline rush in the Society of the Spectacle.

Solar IS Civil Defense

by gmoke on Wed Aug 12th, 2015 at 10:14:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Goebbels and the Nazis learned quite a lot from Edward L Bernays and Ivy Lee.

Edward Bernays - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In his 1965 autobiography, Bernays recalls a dinner at his home in 1933 where

Karl von Wiegand, foreign correspondent of the Hearst newspapers, an old hand at interpreting Europe and just returned from Germany, was telling us about Goebbels and his propaganda plans to consolidate Nazi power. Goebbels had shown Wiegand his propaganda library, the best Wiegand had ever seen. Goebbels, said Wiegand, was using my book Crystallizing Public Opinion as a basis for his destructive campaign against the Jews of Germany. This shocked me. ... Obviously the attack on the Jews of Germany was no emotional outburst of the Nazis, but a deliberate, planned campaign.[30]

`Poison Ivy' Lee and propaganda

The second principal accusation against Ivy Lee is based on the well-documented fact that Lee acted as an unpaid public relations adviser to Nazi Germany in the early 1930s.

Miller and Dinan cite sources that record a meeting between Ivy Lee and both Adolf Hitler and German Foreign Minister Herman Goebbels during a visit to a German business client in 1934. According to the reports Lee was introduced to the Nazi ministers by Dr Max Illgner, the Managing Director of I.G. Farben, whose company he was advising at the time (Hiebert, 1966).

Lee reportedly advised Goebbels to cease propaganda efforts in the United States and urged him to meet personally with foreign diplomats and press in an effort to establish better relations with them. According to the US Ambassador to Berlin at the time, William Dodd, Goebbels followed that advice to the letter in the course of a conciliatory speech

You learn something new every day!

Everybody is the enemy or the ENEMY on the eve of Armageddon, and many here take the Bible literally (at least in public) and are primed for the Second Coming, The Rapture, and Heaven.

Sadly, you don't need Millenarianism. You know what was the biggest shock for me on 9/11? At the time, I frequented an atheist forum that was international but dominated by Americans. And suddenly, a couple of fellow posters, even friends, whom (I thought) I knew well from years of discussions and who seemed rational up until then switched into "nuke Afghanistan" mode, and it became clear they mean it as the forum descended into flame wars. Then after the Cheney-Bush regime and Faux News ratcheted up the propaganda drive, these same people turned into full-on hate-mongers who could discuss nothing else. (IMHO there was a connection to the fundies: in my observation many of the most doctrinaire American atheists are ex-fundies turned libertarians who are seething with anger at the lies they were told as children but don't notice that some of the attitudes remained.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 13th, 2015 at 03:42:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I tried to arrange a dialogue for the local public access TV between Chomsky and Bernays once upon a time.  Approached both men and got an initial agreement.  In preparation read Bernays' autobio, Biography of an Idea: Memoirs of Public Relations Counsel.  Bernays said he admired Chomsky but asked for a copy of Chomsky's book, Manufacturing Consent, before setting a date.  I bought a copy and gave it to him but, after reading it, Bernays backed out.

If memory serves, Bernays met Goebbels in the 1920s and Goebbels expressed his admiration for Propaganda, another book by Bernays.

Permanent crisis
for the adrenaline rush
in the Society of the Spectacle.

That seems to be how it works.

Solar IS Civil Defense

by gmoke on Thu Aug 13th, 2015 at 03:43:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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