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A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 9th, 2015 at 10:38:10 AM EST
And what about trains from Denmark to Sweden?
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Sep 9th, 2015 at 10:49:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They stopped trains and ferries.
by Katrin on Wed Sep 9th, 2015 at 12:46:43 PM EST
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No, apparently the traffic between Denmark and Sweden is normal. Railway connections between Germany and Denmark completely closed, and they don't say how long.

I wonder. Is that a message or are they really so scared?

by Katrin on Wed Sep 9th, 2015 at 01:07:31 PM EST
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The authorities are flailing and hardly know what to do. Refugees are intentionally not seeking asylum in Denmark, but instead trying to pass to Sweden.

Mixed bag from this side:

  • Police in Malmö has arrested suspected refugee "smugglers" while "smugglers" are organising quite openly on facebook to drive and pick up refugees in Denmark.

  • Danish minister claimed that negotiations has started with Sweden to void Dublin to let refugees through.. Swedish government denies any negotiations and claims Dublin rules are in effect. Meanwhile, PM Löfven has meetings with Merkel to form some kind of nucleus for a European deal.

  • The state railway company has declared that they have lifted their demand on identity documents for tickets if (and only if) you are (or rather look like) a Syrian refugee. Personal tickets, in effect a demand for identity documents was introduced a couple of years ago because the ticket price system was so complicated that the few who got it could buy cheap and sell for a fixed price online, and apparently turn a profit. Introducing an understandable pricing system must be unserious.

  • Large demonstrations in many cities pro-refugees. Attempts - mostly failed - from politicians to place themselves in front. People want concrete action, not vague promises.

  • Spontaneous organising to welcome refugees and get them a place to sleep in Malmö.

  • Huge increase in volonteers to host refugee families in Gothenburg.
by fjallstrom on Wed Sep 9th, 2015 at 03:29:27 PM EST
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"PM Löfven has meetings with Merkel to form some kind of nucleus for a European deal."

Funny. While those two and Juncker are harping on about a quota system for the amount of refugees that come in the space of two weeks, the rest of the EU are doing everything to block it or receive just a token number of refugees. This is 'EU solidarity' in action. Only in this case Germany and Sweden are on the receiving end of it.

Schengen is toast!

by epochepoque on Wed Sep 9th, 2015 at 04:40:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
European Alternatives » Denmark: report from a closed Schengen border

Jackson Oldfield is a Senior Project Manager at European Alternatives, overseeing the Citizen Rights programme. He was denied entry into Denmark from Germany due to his British passport.

In his State of the Union speech yesterday, Jean Claude Juncker outlined his plan for EU member states to take in 120,000 extra refugees. Angela Merkel warned it might not be ambitious enough, the UK's David Cameron distanced itself from the mechanism, deciding to take a paltry 4,000 extra Syrian refugees a year, and the media kept criticising the ever criticisable Orban.

But, while overshadowed by Juncker, Merkel, Cameron and Orban, an equally divisive, dangerous and disturbing power play was unfolding in Europe's north: Denmark closed it borders. Or rather, it closed its borders to all but its citizens and residents and the residents and citizens of its nearest neighbours - Sweden and Germany.

This is both a personal and impersonal account - I should say I too was one of those travelling from Germany to Denmark yesterday, but with the wrong passport (British) - but actually this is not an individual or isolated situation, but rather one that challenges the whole idea of the European Union and something we should all be concerned about.

Why do I say this? First, the closure was apparently in response to Juncker's plan for refugees. The Swedish Government requested that Denmark stop letting asylum seekers directly through to Sweden and asked Denmark to instead process asylum claims in Denmark, in accordance with the Dublin rules. In a country where non-Danes have faced stigmatism from official sources for over a decade, the logical solution in the un-logic of xenophobia was for Denmark to close its borders.

by Katrin on Thu Sep 10th, 2015 at 05:44:08 AM EST
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The EU is now a giant pinball machine.

Schengen is toast!
by epochepoque on Thu Sep 10th, 2015 at 03:32:35 PM EST
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Re your sig line, I think Schengen doesn't matter: there is a border domino in this refugee crisis and the re-imposition of intra-Schengen borders will only result in more dominos falling.

  • The first domino was the border between Turkey and Greece. Already three years ago, Greece built a border fence. This only resulted in two things: most migrants took the sea route, and Turkey ceased any efforts to control departures. Greek refugee camps over-flowed, and Dublin III was voided for Greece.
  • The next domino was Macedonia, where the scandal-ridden and aggressively autocratic government decided to send down the army a few weeks ago. This only resulted in a log-jam, and the crowds broke through.
  • The next domino would have been Serbia, but Serbia was greatly angered by Hungary's border fence, so it is providing free passage now.
  • Everyone saw how the next domino, Hungary, fell.
  • Should Austria re-impose border controls, the refugees and smugglers will be able to spread out along a winding 366 km section of the former Iron Curtain, with lots of woods on hilly terrain and almost no rivers to cross. Methinks that domino would fall rather quickly.
  • The border of Germany and Austria is a bigger challenge, being mostly high mountains or wide rivers. But closing this border might result in refugees massing at a few border crossings, resulting in situations like at Budapest Keleti.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Sep 10th, 2015 at 03:55:54 PM EST
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Ha, the CSU would love to impose some tough measures against refugees and close the borders. That would prevent tourists from enjoying the mountains though, and the CSU voting rural population working in tourism might object... Quite a dilemma.
by Katrin on Thu Sep 10th, 2015 at 04:37:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Especially with Oktoberfest coming up....
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Sep 10th, 2015 at 04:51:23 PM EST
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Oktoberfest und Refugees - ,,It could get crowded"
The Oktoberfest begins in one week but what happens when thousands of Wiesn visitors meet hundreds of refugees in the central station?

... Coordination work is still done mainly by Bavaria. The effort is enormous it is said repeatedly. Hopes for another hub in Germany have been balked. A spokesperson for the police says that they are "irritated" that no other place is doing the coordination work. It's a "strenuous effort" he says that cannot be sustained over months.



Schengen is toast!
by epochepoque on Thu Sep 10th, 2015 at 10:24:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If that is right (I think you're right), then it's virtually guaranteed that significant nativist, anti-foreigner tendencies will settle in. 'If we're not in charge of our own borders, who is?' To some degree I can understand that because it's a fundamental question of national sovereignty.

Schengen is toast!
by epochepoque on Thu Sep 10th, 2015 at 10:32:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Migrant crisis: Germany 'to start border controls' - BBC News

Germany is to reintroduce some form of controls on its border with Germany to cope with the influx of migrants, German and Austrian media report.

It is not clear what measures would be introduced.

More than 13,000 migrants arrived into Munich alone on Saturday. Germany's vice-chancellor said the country was "at the limit of its capabilities".

Germany's Bild newspaper and Austria's Kronen Zeitung said controls would be in place on the Bavaria-Austria border.

They are excited at the BBC, apparently. They mean the German/Austrian border, of course.

by Katrin on Sun Sep 13th, 2015 at 10:32:19 AM EST
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And what are they going to do with the people they catch? Keep them in Salzburg and Kufstein?
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Sun Sep 13th, 2015 at 10:38:33 AM EST
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Salzburg is the solution Expose them to the Festspiele and they turn back in horror.
by IM on Sun Sep 13th, 2015 at 11:19:45 AM EST
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Interior minister de Maiziere explained the measures in a press conference this afternoon.

by Katrin on Sun Sep 13th, 2015 at 12:03:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
More de Misere:

Flüchtlinge: Deutschland führt vorübergehend Grenzkontrollen ein - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Laut de Maizière stehen die Maßnahmen im Einklang mit den Vorschriften des Schengener Grenzkodex. Sie seien notwendig, um zu einem geordneten Verfahren zurückzukehren. Zudem seien sie unabdingbar zur Aufrechterhaltung von Sicherheit und Ordnung, so der Innenminister. Die große Zahl der Flüchtlinge überfordere die Aufnahmekapazitäten.

Der Bundesregierung geht es vor allem darum, Zeit zu gewinnen. Die einzelnen Bundesländer brauchen Luft, um den großen Andrang überhaupt noch logistisch zu bewältigen. Vor allem Bayern ist davon betroffen, aber auch Nordrhein-Westfalen, wohin zuletzt Zehntausende Flüchtlinge weitergeleitet wurden. Die Entscheidung soll aber auch ein Signal an die Flüchtlinge sein, nicht überstürzt nach Deutschland aufzubrechen.

Gleichzeitig gibt es Überlegungen, auch Bundeswehrsoldaten zur Grenzsicherung einzusetzen. Sie würden dann in Amtshilfe der Bundespolizei unterstellt und als Hilfspolizisten eingesetzt.

by Katrin on Sun Sep 13th, 2015 at 12:27:22 PM EST
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The first part sounds like what they've been doing for months at Rosenheim.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Sun Sep 13th, 2015 at 06:21:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]


A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 10th, 2015 at 04:41:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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