Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
In the last three Presidential elections, voter turnout has gone down from 57.1% to 54.9% to 54.6% of the voting age population, so please don't make emotive accusations that I am spreading misinformation.

Yes Hillary won the popular vote by a record margin for someone who lost the electoral college, yes the overall voting age population has been rising, and yes voter suppression has been rampant - I know all that and made no comment contradicting it. But are you saying that a little more unity amongst the Obama coalition wouldn't have tipped her over the edge particularly if she had focused more on her must win battleground states?  Given Trump's campaign style I was amazed she didn't do better amongst women and minorities in particular.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Feb 2nd, 2017 at 10:52:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
https:/fivethirtyeight.com/features/no-voter-turnout-wasnt-way-down-from-2012

No, Voter Turnout Wasn't Low

Stories are still circulating a week after the election that turnout fell sharply from 2012. That's almost certainly not true. The confusion is the result of news outlets trying to pin down voter turnout figures quickly in a system that doesn't count millions of votes until weeks after the election.

So yes, if we're discussing what happened to lose an election in which Clinton, while battling against sexism, interference from hostile hackers, unprecedented actions by a rogue arm of the FBI, unprecedented media coverage of false attacks by her opponents and almost no coverage of actual policy, and historic assaults on voting rights, and she loses by a razor thin margin in an election where she  increased voter turnout overall and held the percentage of the eligible voters percentage steady, then I say "low turnout" is a bad answer.  

It obscures what happened -- it excuses the racism, the bad actors, and the online bullying of her supporters and implies she wasn't inspiring and lays all the blame on the candidate. It does nothing to unify the Obama coalition because it excuses the ACTIVE suppression of her message that a certain segment of the left indulged themselves in.  

We didn't lose because politically informed citizens rejected her -- the bases of both parties turned out.  
We lost because the message of her plans and accomplishments did not reach low-information voters in the swing states and we took a hit on the youth vote across all demographics.  We lost because the Republicans tell the WWC that Democrats are the enemy and that their problems stem from immigrants and people of color.  We lost because a big chunk of the WWC left said the same thing in softer terms. We lost because the marginalized people who actually make up the democratic base were actively bullied and blocked from telling their side of the story.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 3rd, 2017 at 12:47:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm afraid there is only so much of your whiney assed excuses I can take. My parents had to spend the rest of their lives living down the shame that their country had allowed Hitler get into power - and they had some real excuses - despite the fact that he never got more than 43.9% of the vote, even after a sustained compaign of violence against his opponents.  

The bottom line is that you fucked up. You let some back country rubes defeat you even though they didn't have a credible candidate, a GOTV operation, a huuuge advertising budget or the endorsement of a single major newspaper.  Your candidate sucked.  She campaigned in the wrong places and on the wrong issues and came to be seen as the creature of the establishment she had become.

And now you have the temerity to come to the European Tribune and lecture its denizens on your obviously superior intelligence and wonderful political skills. Thanks for that.  We have plenty of problems of our own and it doesn't look like your President is going to help us much.  You deal with your problems.  We'll deal with ours. I've tried to give you some latitude but you seem to think that insulting everyone here with your straw men arguments is deserving of some greater respect.  I beg to differ.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Feb 3rd, 2017 at 02:47:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I fucked up?  You do realize Hitler was elected because the far left refused to present a united front with the center left, right?  and apparently no lessons were learned from that.  

The democratic base here is largely made up of people of color.  Your disdain for their votes or opinions, and your refusal to stand with them as allies when they outvoted you, is duly noted.

I would have supported either candidate in the general election against electing a fascist and handing the power of all three branches of government to the party that is causing all the problems you're railing about.  Evidently taking a clear stand against fascism and asking for unity makes me a whiny ass making excuses.

And once the primary was over, the people who support the democrats were actively bullied into silence by extremists on both the left and right.  We had a simple choice to make and a bunch of faux revolutionaries actively dominated the online discourse.

And, Frank?  Fuck you for telling me I have "temerity" for posting here.  I helped build this fucking blog, which for awhile was a vibrant community, till relentless bitter nasty male voices wore everyone down and ran them off. Ever wonder why all the women left here?  You guys clearly have zero tolerance for any view other than your own and systematically drum out everyone who has a different view. Now you're just openly admitting you don't understand the concept of allies and frame every dissenting opinion as the enemy.

Maybe one day the world will run on who makes the most pompous argument or who repeats it with enough fervor instead of actual voting and the powers that be will consult you all and you can tell them your well thought-out opinions on how you think the world SHOULD be run. Until then, enjoy your little lefty circle jerk. Come the glorious revolution and all that!


Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 3rd, 2017 at 10:07:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You do realize Hitler was elected because the far left refused to present a united front with the center left, right?
It would, of course, be equally true to say that the SPD refused to present a united front with the communists. To the point of sending their party militia to break communist legs on occasion. Those two factions were roughly equally matched in numbers (but drew from very different demographics), so it is a case of victor's history for the SPD to claim that they were the natural party of government and the communists were entirely at fault for the failure to form that coalition.

And once the primary was over, the people who support the democrats were actively bullied into silence by extremists on both the left and right.
A lot of the Clinton campaign seemed to think the primaries were over about two months before the actual convention, and were not shy about employing quite vicious silencing tactics. Up to and including trying to get journalists fired for saying nice things about Sanders. Not for saying nasty things about Clinton, which would have been understandable, but for saying nice things about Sanders. Before the convention. That this would engender some lasting bitterness should reasonably have been predicted. It may be the correct move to stand with the people who tried to get you fired in opposition to whatever slithers out of the Republican Party, but in practice it's a hard sell.

We had a simple choice to make and a bunch of faux revolutionaries actively dominated the online discourse.
I have not seen any colorable estimate that puts those people at above ten per cent of the Democratic-leaning community. It does not seem plausible to me that such a small constituency, with no money, no full-time professional shills, no tame newsies, and no support from friendly government officials, would be able to "actively dominate" the commanding heights of the media landscape. But if you have better data on the size, resources and impact of that constituency, then I'd be happy to read it.

However I'm not interested in opinion pieces pointing out that those people are wankers. I already know that, the question is whether they're a plausible explanation for why the Dems lost the election. And their perfidy, however real, is beside that point.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Feb 3rd, 2017 at 11:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
[ET Moderation Technology™]

And that's quite enough. Comments closed. I hope everyone did not enjoy this.

I'm a Gnome now, so I get to have the last word:


by Bjinse on Sat Feb 4th, 2017 at 10:00:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You lost because the DNC collaborates with - and is a tool of - the Capitalist Party, which has been promoting economic fascism and preventing progressive change in countries around the world for at least a century now.

The DNC has always been good at presenting the appearance of token progress while standing on its own feet to make sure as little progress as possible happens.

Why do you think Clinton worked so hard to support NAFTA? Why do you think Obama spent all his time "reaching across the aisle" and "negotiating'?

Why does the Democratic Party feel such a deep need to do this, while the Republicans treat power as an excuse to ignore local and global opposition?

And as for identity politics - nope.

Identity politics is the convenient misdirection that keeps the left permanently distracted from the burning core of barbaric economic injustice that underpins politics and business in the US. Nothing will really change - including deep progress on social justice and opportunity - until that injustice ends.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Feb 3rd, 2017 at 06:31:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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