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Helen:"I hate the idea of leaving the EU, but I don't think the country can survive this impasse much longer. So, if we're gonna go, then some lukewarm halfway house will probably work for most people."

Of all the rationales for letting some form of Brexit through, this is the one I hate the most. The idea that you can appease Brexiteers by throwing them the bone of a soft Brexit seems to me to be be even more delusional than the idea you could appease Hitler by letting him have the Sudetenland..

They will take the bone and demand more. Every minor and major problem will be blamed on remoaners and not having gotten a clean break from the EU. Brexiteers will not rest until the break is complete, and will be encouraged in their efforts by the half victory they have already achieved.

The other part of that rationale I hate is the idea that Brexiteers will take to violence and that a sort of low intensity civil war will break out - a sort of Northern Ireland comes to Britain.

Somehow the idea has taken hold that right wing violence as legitimate, effective, justifiable and impossible to resist while left wing violence is almost desirable as it enables the riot squads to let of some steam and do some recreational head bashing.

I'm sorry, this is tough and easy for an outsider to say, but the class system in the UK is THE problem. I am not normally a revolutionary type - being far too wedded to constitutional processes for change, but there is no easy way to say this: The UK is in the throes of a revolution and you either fight it or give way to fascism.


Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Oct 13th, 2019 at 12:08:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure it's the UK class system so much as the US class system.

The UK enthusiastically adopted the poisonous rhetoric and warped ethics of US neoliberal ideology. As we've seen over and over in other countries, the US is delighted when it can install so-called upper class fascist puppet regimes for resource stripping and the creation of disposably pliant cheap labour.

Brexit is the end game in that process for the UK. The plan seems to have been to spread the contagion elsewhere, but even though the EU has neoliberal issues of its own, it's still proving unexpectedly resilient against total colonisation.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Oct 13th, 2019 at 02:40:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I didn't say there will be chaos. I said there's chaos now. The UK is dying on its feet and not just because of the economic hit of brexit, but because politics in every other sphere has simply stopped.

One of the things that's happened is that the violence is happening now, Jo cox's murder was literally the first shot fired, not the last. Actual fascists march the streets now, in large gangs terrorizing neighbourhoods.

You're right, they won't be appeased by a soft brexit. But they know that what they get now is the most they will ever get, cos any actual leaving the EU will damage the UK terribly. However, equally, until we do leave, I don't see these people ever shutting up. And they have been convinced that there was a democratic will to leave and if wiser heads prevent that, it will genuinely damage concepts of democracy in this country for decades.

I honestly don' see a way out of the trap Cameron stupidly painted us into

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Oct 13th, 2019 at 02:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Brexiteers will not rest until the break is complete, and will be encouraged in their efforts by the half victory they have already achieved.
What makes you think they will stop after achieving Brexit? Given that Brexit will be an economic and social disaster, every single problem for the next century will be blamed on the remoaners.
by asdf on Sun Oct 13th, 2019 at 07:33:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And why it is an absolute must for the Leavers to put the blame on the EU.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Sun Oct 13th, 2019 at 10:39:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because they are like children playing blame games?
Because they know a no deal Brexit will be a disaster and need to be able to blame it on someone else?
Because it fits in with their childish hatred of the EU in the first place?

It will be a hard sell though. EU has already granted two extensions for UK to get their act together and negotiated at least one Withdrawal Agreement, and shown willingness to grant/negotiate more.

Of course none of this will matter to hard core Brexiteers. For them hatred of the EU is axiomatic and anything the EU does to protect its interests after a no-deal Brexit will merely confirm their hatreds.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Oct 14th, 2019 at 08:34:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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