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That's why Labour will kick-start a Green Industrial Revolution that will create one million jobs in the UK to transform our industry, energy, transport, agriculture and our buildings, while restoring nature. Our Green New Deal aims to achieve the substantial majority of our emissions reductions by 2030 in a way that is evidence-based, just and that delivers an economy that serves the interests of the many, not the few.  

Just as the original Industrial Revolution brought industry, jobs and pride to our town ... [Labour Manifesto 2019: 12]

Given your understanding of events, capital requirements, and "geo-political rivalry" which predicated "the original Industrial Revolution" of Europe, is the proposition feasible, delusional, or a demonstration of "magical realism"?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Nov 22nd, 2019 at 06:51:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought the original Industrial Revolution brought poverty to the skilled workers (hence the Luddites) while the jobs and pride came a century or more later. But the Manifesto is addressed to people who think that Brexit will bring back control, so in that context it may make sense.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Fri Nov 22nd, 2019 at 07:24:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also: is there anything in the Labour "Green New Deal" which requires the UK first to leave the EU?

Environmental policies are not constrained by EU membership.

VdL is also harping about a Green New Deal for Europe.

by Bernard on Fri Nov 22nd, 2019 at 07:58:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. Promise to execute a legally-binding referendum remain or leave result.... qualified with column-inches of dodgy NEW! Withdrawal Agreement negotiation.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Fri Nov 22nd, 2019 at 08:51:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You may be thinking of the LOW-skilled workers rather than the MIDDLE-skilled workers and HIGH-skilled workers who took management posts at company trading posts, administrative offices, and plantations from, oh, 1640 until the wars of independence in the colonies after WWII.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Fri Nov 22nd, 2019 at 09:00:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Prior to the GLORIOUS REVOLUTION and "boreal crown", England's economic growth and sub-division of industry into wage dependency blossomed with supply of diverse raw materials from continental entrepreneurs, chiefly Dutch circum-navigators.

I might have mentioned 9. "Commodity" and "Commonweal": Economic and Social Problems, 1520-1560, because the entire semester is such a droll yarn. Crown joint stock charters show up ~6 min before the end of that lecture.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Nov 22nd, 2019 at 09:24:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We are speaking in broad generalities here but my impression of preferment in the British colonial service and trading companies was not that promotion was based on skill, but rather was more about coming from the "right families", being made of "the right stuff", going to the right schools, and having a good wartime record as an officer.

Members of the "working classes", however skilled, rarely made it to the officer ranks in the military, or management offices in the civil and commercial sectors. This might have been partly due to the disparity in the levels of education available to the working and middle classes, but mainly it was just about social class.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Nov 22nd, 2019 at 10:45:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 at 04:09:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Several centuries of British rule of Ireland led by incompetent toffs and with the working classes doing the dirty work as foot soldiers and Black and Tans?

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 at 12:03:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
m'k. How about the Irish Times?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 at 07:56:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Members of the "working classes", however skilled, rarely made it to the officer ranks in the military, or management offices in the civil and commercial sectors.

It seems that in the Royal Navy they did have a problem of 'gentlemen and tarpaulins', where men coming from the commercial fleet ('tarpaulins', usually pressed to service during war) were better seamen and commanders than those of proper birth.

It was considered an obsolete problem by the early 18th century, when commissions required a proof of skill and a service in a lower rank. So, even if you were a gentleman, you had to join the Royal Navy as a young boy - a midshipman - and process trough the ranks. Provided you had the ability for sea and a patronage of an elder officer, who put your name forward at the right time.

Patronage would, of course, allow people to prefer relatives and peers, but since in the higher ranks career progress depended also on the whims of the Whitehall, people tried to bet on those most likely to progress into the level where they could return the support and loyalty.

Therefore, one of the tasks of a ship's captain was to make sure that the young officers learned to behave like gentlemen regardless of their background. They might end up as vice-admirals, after all.

by pelgus on Sun Nov 24th, 2019 at 12:01:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's simply a terrible way to treat HRH's subjects. What was it that the Royal navy was doing by circumnavigating the world all those centuries? I forget.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 02:11:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is a reasonable aspiration and should make some electoral impact - which is the main purpose of a manifesto. Of course Labour may find that "the coffers are empty" if/when they reach office and have to trim their plans accordingly.

It is a political necessity for Labour to offer an alternative to Tory austerity and if they can convince the electorate of its feasibility, it could be a vote winner. Game changer, I'm not too sure.

And BTW, there is no reason why this agenda couldn't be delivered from within the EU, and every reason to suppose their might be more resources to fund it if the UK were to Remain.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Nov 22nd, 2019 at 07:53:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For contrast, I do appreciate the energetic "audit" of UK ahh leadership in Europe's security, national diplomacy, and "internationalism."  

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Fri Nov 22nd, 2019 at 09:05:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

(No relation to Corbyn's "deal" (Withdrawal Agreement))


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Nov 22nd, 2019 at 11:02:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A criticism of the Conservative Coalition government in 2010-12 was not that debt increased, but that they didn't focus on economic recovery - but prioritised deficit reduction at the wrong time. The deflationary fiscal policy proved a drag on the recovery, making it one of the slowest on record.

Debt under Conservatives 2010-19

How austerity broke Britain - and how we can recover

"Economics is not a binary concept"

Big increases in in-work relative poverty rate are about much more than just low pay | IFS |

by Oui on Fri Nov 22nd, 2019 at 09:57:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Economic recovery in The Netherlands

At the start of the crisis, government debt increased rapidly to 68 percent of the GDP in 2014. The accumulation of debt was mainly on account of state aid granted to financial institutions, falling tax revenues due to the economic downturn, and rising expenditure as a result of mounting unemployment. Recovery did follow after 2014. In 2017, government debt was in compliance with the European ceiling again (60 percent of GDP) for the first time since 2010. At the end of 2017, the Netherlands' government debt stood at 57.1 percent.

The Netherlands 10 years after Lehman Brothers

by Oui on Fri Nov 22nd, 2019 at 09:58:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The key issue leading to the economic problems faced both in the UK and the USA after 1970 was the reduction of tariffs and the loss of capital controls. With commercial elites in charge of trade policy that policy was directed for their benefit while domestic economic policy was left to suck hind titty. Blame for the resulting problems was deflected onto abandonment of the gold standard after '71.

In truth, the problem was more one of pretending that gold standard rigidities regarding monetary policy still applied. That prevented either country from enjoying the potential benefits of the new free floating FX system with respect to domestic policy. The result was forgoing possibly as much as $100 Trillion of potentially available economic activity since 1971. The fact that national policy was dominated by fossil fuel interests and the military industrial complex were the other major impediments to achieving a better future.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 at 05:41:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Everybody knows the worth of their weight in gold since the London Conference of '33, quipped Hull.



Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 at 08:31:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can't be done, because not enough capital?
Do you subscribe to the Kellin "crowding out" voodoo doctrine?
Are you unaware that the UK has a sovereign currency, and no written doctrine forbidding monetary creation or debt financing?

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 at 02:14:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is an entirely reasonable - and long overdue - plan.
(Aka affirmation)


'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Dec 4th, 2019 at 10:11:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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