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Let's get real for a second.

May has been a fuck-up through out this silliness.  No reason to think she'll be anything but a fuck-up over the next 30 days.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Wed Feb 27th, 2019 at 06:49:36 PM EST
You will note I have made no predictions beyond predicting a wide margin of victory for Remain IF a second referendum is held. Logically, rationally, a delay in Brexit can only lead to one outcome - a rescinding of the A.50 notification following a second referendum. But very little in this process has been rational to date, beyond the HOC gradually having to come to terms with realities it would rather have ignored.

The scope for this process to be mismanaged or sabotaged in some way is still high. For one thing, anything Corbyn proposes is likely to be opposed my most Tories almost all of the time. It is still unclear whether any motion to hold a second referendum will pass the HOC without May's government's support. My guess is that that may not be forthcoming until late June as the UK faces the prospect of the EU Council not renewing an initial 3 month extension.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Feb 27th, 2019 at 07:01:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
(t'was C# ... I believe?  :-)

I'm not confident the EU Council is slam dunk for approving an extension even if Moron gets her act together requests it.  It's being broadly reported the EU are tired of the UK and want the Thing Done.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Wed Feb 27th, 2019 at 08:15:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All it takes is one Council member with a grudge - against the UK or even against Brussels - Viktor Orbán anyone? or a Pedro Sánchez in the middle of a difficult general election campaign in Spain? - to withhold consent or to use his vote as a bargaining chip in some unrelated dispute and the whole process comes to an abrupt halt. Gibraltar could still be the Rock that Brexit founders on...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Feb 27th, 2019 at 08:51:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How about the UK just giving up their Gibraltar colony? Have May present it as a choice between giving it up and no Brexit?
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Feb 27th, 2019 at 11:58:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. You are talking centuries of British naval dominance here. It would be like asking Tories to re-run WW2 with Britain on the losing side. It would be not just the end of Empire but the end of the World as we Know it. Even the monkeys would rebel. Churchill would turn in his grave. The Queen would utter words of concern. Britain's nuclear subs would be mobilised. Britain's expats in Spain would threaten to eat only in Irish pubs. HOW CAN YOU EVEN THINK OF SUCH A THING???

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 01:27:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hell, there are Tories still pissed off about the Treaty of Amiens and the loss of Menorca.
by rifek on Sun Mar 10th, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Treaty of Amiens? Are you kidding? The true blue Brexiteers don't live a mere 200 years in the past; for the best of them, only 800 years old treaties will do:

Historical nonsense underpins UK's Brexit floundering

Rees-Mogg sees May's Chequers plan as "the greatest vassalage since King John paid homage to Phillip II at Le Goulet", a bizarre reference to a short-lived treaty by which England accepted French sovereignty over territories in France. Medieval Britain's fascinating complexities, and its political and cultural entanglements with the continent, are ignored in favour of flag-waving fantasy: The Daily Express declared the crusader knight - drawn from the European attempts to conquer the Holy Land - "the figurehead of the struggle to repatriate British sovereignty".
by Bernard on Sun Mar 10th, 2019 at 02:19:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rees-Mogg apparently knows very little about the period running from, say, Hastings to Bosworth.  Probably knows very little about any other period either.  I suspect his only history book had a title along the lines of "Ripping Tales for Boys."  He's such a moron, he fully qualifies to be a US politician, aside from the citizenship thing.  Amazing how far a double-barreled name can still get you.  As for the Daily Repress, it doesn't know much about much and displays that, well, daily.
by rifek on Mon Mar 11th, 2019 at 01:45:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He could be governor in several US states. We are not actually very organized over here...
https://ballotpedia.org/Qualifications_for_governor_in_each_state
by asdf on Mon Mar 11th, 2019 at 05:03:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but there are all those unwritten requirements, e.g., try running for governor in Utah if you aren't Mormon.
by rifek on Mon Mar 11th, 2019 at 09:57:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The same way the NY rules don't officially require you to be a member of the Cuomo family.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Mon Mar 11th, 2019 at 11:10:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But in New York, you're not threatened with excommunication for voting the wrong way.  You may have a contract taken out on you, but it isn't a spiritual one.
by rifek on Wed Mar 13th, 2019 at 03:02:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But when Teachout was running against Cuomo, didn't somebody say that women who don't vote for women have a special place in Hell reserved for them?
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Mar 13th, 2019 at 12:08:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lord haw-haw.
Method actor.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Mar 12th, 2019 at 12:44:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not Pedro Sánchez, but imagine a right-wing nationalist government of Ciudadanos and PP with outside Vox support after May...

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 05:38:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Referendums in the United Kingdom
Referendums in the United Kingdom are occasionally held at a national, regional or local level. National referendums can be permitted by an Act of Parliament and regulated through the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000, but they are by tradition extremely rare due to the principle of parliamentary sovereignty meaning that they cannot be constitutionally binding on either the Government or Parliament, although they usually have a persuasive political effect.

Agitate all they want for a "public vote", this exercise is morally vacant without the expressed consent of parliament to bind the government legally to the result of the "public vote."

references to legislation.gov.uk, AFFIRMED gy UK High Court recently by a number of lawsuits challenging the commission and execution of the 2016 Referendum to exit the EU.

Theoretically, enacting such legislation requires parliament to table and pass a specific bill enumerating the legal and political authorities of said "public vote", of which there are in UK law evidently NONE, to rule proceedings or capacities of parliament and government.

HYPOTHETICALLY, IF the prime minister were to exercise a prerogative to dissolve parliament thereby necessitating general election of members, the composition of the body --no matter how amenable to constituencies' demands for "public vote" to revers or alter prior legislation-- does not assure that this NEW! parliament would prevail on the High Court to vacate parliamentary sovereignty.

THEREFORE, parliament consultation of the opinion of the polity ("public vote") is not a political instrument to affect the form of UK government. It is a ritual cathexis, or a dramaturgy, to which the UK government periodically invites its captive audience participation in approval or disapproval of particular actors among its ranks.

Method of "persuasion" directed to the vote of each and every elected and hereditary "representative" of the polity affirming ONE solution to real and imagined annihilation of the nation must change before the institutions will change to lasting effect.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Feb 27th, 2019 at 08:17:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for this. Parliament is afraid of the political consequences of not honouring the Brexit referendum result and so would require a second referendum to provide cover for any decision to reverse Brexit. Equally, as the consequences of Brexit could well be dire, a second referendum would be a useful tool to off-load responsibility for those consequences on the people themselves. May's government currently resembles a game of musical chairs - no one wants to be left holding the Brexit when the music stops, and only May is tone deaf enough to carry on regardless.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Feb 27th, 2019 at 08:57:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
a second referendum would be a useful tool to off-load responsibility for those consequences on the people themselves.

The "people's vote" is politically impotent. That is what legislation.gov.uk guarantees.

That you or anyone else out there who is NOT an MP is unwilling or unable to understands that reminds me. You (pl.) are only responsible for seating and re-seating the MPs you trust to screw you left, right, and center.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Feb 27th, 2019 at 09:29:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You confuse legal with political effect...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Feb 27th, 2019 at 09:48:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I don't.
All laws are political acts.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 05:34:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But not all political acts are legal

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 11:01:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Illegala political acts are codified. These are enumerated crimes and are punishable to the full the extent proscribed by law --or law enforcement agents, such as "special prosecutors" and police officers.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 02:20:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No they can be neither legal nor illegal. They are POLITICAL!

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 06:04:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What is the meaning of "political" in your world, Frank?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 07:21:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All this tells us is that the UK parliament are muppets who can't write referendum legislation properly.

You can do a binding referenda in a Westminster system quite easily: pass laws which both set up the referendum rules and what will happen if it passes or fails, and a forked commencement clause to bring the various bits into effect appropriately. NZ did this when we switched to MMP, with the Electoral Referendum Act 1993 and the commencement clause of the Electoral Act 1993, which is basicly a big "if... then" clause. We'll be doing a similar exercise next year over marijuana legalisation, euthanasia, and probably tweaking the MMP threshold.

Of course, parliament could then repeal or amend these laws if they change their mind, so they're no more "binding" than any other law in a westminster system with parliamentary sovereignty. But they're certainly no less "binding" either. And the political consequences of a parliament goign back on its word like that... well, they'd be very ugly in NZ.

by IdiotSavant on Fri Mar 1st, 2019 at 12:06:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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