Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
The most puzzling thing about this diary is the repeated suggestion that Corbyn could unite the Remain vote behind him. He's a leaver.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 25th, 2019 at 02:38:30 PM EST
There is no suggestion his preferred option may not be to leave - under the terms of a Labour negotiated soft Brexit deal involving a close and friction-less relationship with the Customs Union and Single Market.

There is a suggestion he is trying to keep both Leave and Remain supporting potential Labour voters on side by suggesting that:

  1. He is against May's (Tory) deal
  2. He is against a no deal Brexit
  3. He is for a Labour negotiated soft Brexit but may be prepared to put it to the people in a referendum where Remain will also be an option on the ballot paper.

To achieve 3 he has to win a general election and gain power first. Hence the importance of keeping as many Remain and Leave supporting potential Labour voters as possible on side.

Failing that congress has committed him to a second referendum. He has shown that he has the democratic credentials to accept whatever the outcome of that referendum is notwithstanding his personal views.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Mar 25th, 2019 at 04:06:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
HELEN: "this is why I have never understood all the noise in the media about Corbyn and what he thinks about brexit. His opinions are irrelevant, his desire, for or against a referendum, is irrelevant."
CAT: "The only "option" which Corbyn agita expresses should be, must be, understood as acknowledgment of UK third-country status and negotiating position viz. Lisbon without TEU protection extended 21 months from 29 March 2019 by the Withdrawal Agreement."

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Mar 25th, 2019 at 04:26:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Corbyn has been positioning his candidature for PM post-BREXIT deadline. He evidently expects "no-deal." He evidently has difficulty persuading Labour members (UK, SCOTLAND, IE) to accept his leadership, when the political windfall comes to Tory "opposition" with third-country status to the EU.

UK EXIT is scheduled one way or another absent HoC vote to revoke. Exit is the conclusion to all "options".

Conversely, Corbyn evidently has prepared to re-negotiate the "Political Declaration" trade agenda in the event HoC ratifies the Withdrawal Agreement to appease Tories --BECAUSE exit is scheduled by the WA. (letter) Again, he does not dispute WA trade terms; he plans to conform UK third-country trade position to minimum EU or EEA criteria.

Some precepts in the "Political Declaration" must survive exit in HoC, IF the Uk is to trade with EU.

Feedback in the (crypto-Tory) press exploits Labour party ambivalence about Corbyn's popular support for the party as well as any popular vote that might symbolically undermine Tory dominance of the HoC.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Mar 25th, 2019 at 05:05:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"He evidently has difficulty persuading Labour members (UK, SCOTLAND, IE) to accept his leadership"
A typo, I presume. Scotland is part of the UK, IE is not. There is an entirely separate Labour party in IE with Brendan Howlin as leader.

The NI Labour party holds zero seats in the assembly (0/90)and on county councils (0/462) and received 0.2% of the vote in 2016 Assembly elections. In the 2016 UK Labour party leadership election 765 Labour party members in Northern Ireland took part in the vote, with a majority voting for Corbyn (Corbyn 541; Smith 224).

It is generally not supported by nationalists as they do not support a UK party organizing in N. Ireland. It's vote might therefore be regarded as the tiny fraction of the unionist community who have a left wing orientation.

I have previously argued that there appears to be little substantive difference between May's deal and Corbyn's preferred deal - except that it is to be negotiated by Labour. However the Labour party also appear to be more open to putting whatever deal they negotiate to a public vote.

A you know all of this is moot unless May loses a vote of confidence/calls a general election and the EU grant a further extension to enable it to take place while the UK is still a member and in a position to (re)negotiate any withdrawal agreement.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Mar 25th, 2019 at 05:52:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess, some people don't imagine a Labour Party without borders. Some do.

-- Labour Leader to attend PES Congress in Lisbon Dec 2018

The PES Prime Ministers of Spain, Portugal, Malta and Slovakia will be speaking at the Congress while the UK Labour Party Leader Jeremy Corbyn will also attend and speak on the Friday evening.
Brexit: Labour Party Irish Society urges Jeremy Corbyn to back second referendum Jan 2019
British Labour party divided: Jeremy Corbyn accused of failing to tackle anti-semitism in organisation
"Ms Ryan, who has represented Enfield North [UK-NI] since 1997, with a break from 2010-15, and served as a minister in Tony Blair's government, also attacked Mr Corbyn's position on the EU."
Labour voters should also back other `progressive parties' - TD Howlin, Nov 2018
"'If there is a constituency where we cannot have Labour, let us not have more conservatives, nationalists or populists. Let us have other progressives. As many progressive voices as possible in the Dáil and in local councils.' "
-- Scotland's papers: Second wave of Labour MPs set to quit party, Feb 2019
(one reason why WoS deride Labour wasting in Scotland's "devolved" parliament. They're in it to spoil unity as is the custom)
"a concerted attempt to do maximum damage to Mr Corbyn's leadership at a critical time for British politics."
-- Scottish nationalists offer support to Labour to topple UK PM, Dec 2018
"if it lodges a no-confidence motion on British Prime Minister Theresa May's rule"

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Mar 25th, 2019 at 06:45:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The UK is NOT a member of the Second International.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Mar 28th, 2019 at 04:44:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Neither was the US.

US-UK do not do international law. 'k?

As we should have learned the governments of these two nations in particular --the "elites" and their constituents-- will do anything to dissemble law, labor, civic culture which dilutes exclusive powers vested in it. The hostility of such governments toward inalienable human labors in all of its forms is legend.

wikiwtf status: Socialist International

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Mar 28th, 2019 at 05:12:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Another reason Bernie Sanders is useless.
by asdf on Fri Mar 29th, 2019 at 04:06:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Somewhat ironically he has the mirror-role Teresa May adopted. Putting the public will before his own personal beliefs (if there were another referendum and Remain won), a suboptimal situation from the points of view of authenticity and passion.
Does he have the same lust for leadership she has doggedly evinced?
Just because he is perceived as a Brexiteer, does that mean his negotiating skills for a deal are compromised by that?
How important is Europe to Corbyn? In or out, his job remains (sorry!) pretty much the same. Even he had ten times the following, uniting Remainers and Exiteers under some ideological Old Labour banner would be beyond his powers, especially dodging the daily establishment flak being PM would earn him.
His strong point - aside from the grisly self-destruction of the Tories - is that most of the country didn't even bother to vote the referendum. The obviously weren't bothered much either way, or took it for granted that Remainers would easily outnumber the Farage-loons, a done deal.
Just as the vast majority regard the whole Brexit psychodrama as a bizarre aberration concocted by idiotic politicians with too much free time. They just want the whole nightmare to be over either way so they can get on with their lives without thinking too much about politics.
Those people are his possible voter basin, and it's a huge one. The LibDems have last their cred, there are no young firebrand charismatic leaders on either side to capture the media attention. Voter apathy will still be an issue as many have given up all hope that politics can do anything but screw things up.
He will have to be very strong to guide the country, riven by Brexit, to a better place.
Within, where he is a known quantity and his scepticism would provide a counterpoint to the Macron-isation of Europe.
Without, he will see to it that wealth inequality will be pruned, and that young people attracted to a more idealistic politics can be a huge force for change.

Climate change is much more important for them than L-R politics du jour. I  


'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Mar 25th, 2019 at 09:02:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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