Russian war aims in Ukraine | 61 comments (61 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Russian war aims in Ukraine (4.00 / 3)

Seems like the talk about Nazis in Ukraine is based on the view that Russia (using the USSR) model is nicely socialist. Which opens a question about whether today's Russia is even remotely socialist.

I'm not a political scientist, but I thought the general definition of socialism was the public ownership of the means of production under an authoritarian government, while fascism is the private ownership of the means of production under an authoritarian government.

By those definitions, there are hardly any communist countries around any more (maybe Cuba?) and plenty of fascist ones--including Russia as perhaps the outstanding current example.

That line of argument says that Russia accusing Ukraine of being run by Nazis is simply projection.

by asdf on Mon Apr 4th, 2022 at 10:52:04 PM EST

Re: Russian war aims in Ukraine (none / 1)

Usual case of pressing "Post" without reviewing.

Misplaced ")" should be "model)".
"general definition of communism was the public ownership..."

by asdf on Mon Apr 4th, 2022 at 10:54:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Russian war aims in Ukraine (4.00 / 2)

I always think of socialism as public ownership of the means of production -- agnostic on whether the regime is authoritarian or democratic -- and communism as the status after the "withering away" of the state.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Apr 4th, 2022 at 11:10:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Russian war aims in Ukraine (4.00 / 4)

Yeah, I don't think Russia is remotely socialist these days. It's really quite fascist -- private ownership but heavily directed by a hyper-nationalistic authoritarian government.

I don't think oligarchy really covers it well, because the oligarchs don't seem to exercise a whole lot of power. It's just the Putin Show.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Apr 4th, 2022 at 11:16:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Russian war aims in Ukraine (4.00 / 4)

Russia has always been brutal, authoritarian, and imperialistic.

For a while it was a brutal, communist, authoritarian, and imperialistic. After the end of the USSR it dropped the communism - which was mostly just a pretext anyway - but kept the rest.

It's essentially a medieval monarchy, with oligarchs as courtiers/barons and Putin as would-be emperor, with the difference that the excuse for military adventures is racist and homophobic psychological projection - terror of passivity, enfeeblement, and forced domination - and not religious nonsense about god being onside.

As is normal for fascism, the racism, mysticism and death worship are tinged with a miasma of nostalgia in a way that doesn't quite fit with the medieval world view.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Apr 5th, 2022 at 07:09:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Russian war aims in Ukraine (4.00 / 3)

I don't like to be essentialist, but it's true that Lenin too was brutal, authoritarian, and imperialistic.

Allow me to reformulate : Russian political leadership has always been brutal, authoritarian, and imperialistic.

"Russia" is an arbitrary piece of the surface of the earth. "Russians" are generally decent people.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Tue Apr 5th, 2022 at 07:25:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Russian war aims in Ukraine (4.00 / 5)

Of course I'm talking about political systems. That's why I said "Russia" and not "Russians."

Ultimately Russian mafia neo-monarchy, US corporatism, UK public schools are all psychopath farms. .

The differences are in implementation - specifically how direct and face to face the violence is.

Western psychopathic systems specialise in indirectness - economic apartheid, debt abuse, covert propaganda to manufacture consent with the appearance of freedom, and distant foreign military opportunism. Direct violence is limited to specific subcultures.

Russian psychopathy is more direct and straightforward. The lies are more blatant, the gaslighting more extreme, the justifications more tenuous, the violence and repression more overt. What you see is what you get.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Apr 5th, 2022 at 08:15:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Russian war aims in Ukraine (none / 0)

Although those few Russians I have know have all had very authoritarian mindsets...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Apr 5th, 2022 at 11:56:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Russian war aims in Ukraine | 61 comments (61 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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