Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

My lifestyle seems to be adding up to about....

less than 1 terron   0 votes - 0 %
1 terron   0 votes - 0 %
1.5   0 votes - 0 %
2   2 votes - 33 %
2.5   1 vote - 16 %
3   0 votes - 0 %
3.5   1 vote - 16 %
4   1 vote - 16 %
4.5   0 votes - 0 %
5   0 votes - 0 %
> 5   1 vote - 16 %
6 Total Votes
My current pre-PV-system lifestyle according to MyFootprint.com adds up to 2.5 terrons, but I'm not sure how they got at the number.

First, repeating the test with energy self-supply choice doesn't change the result.

The number for mobility is the super-low one I expected, what really stands out (almost half of my footprint) is goods/services. But there weren't many questions (to be exact, there was one: on rubbish) that ask about my use of those. I think detailed questions on my purchase would definitely put me lower.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Jul 7th, 2007 at 07:03:38 AM EST
according to MyFootprint.com adds up to 2.5 terrons, but I'm not sure how they got at the number.

That's exactly the problem I currently have with the webpage - too opaque in the calculation and not specified enough for my taste.

I think ET can do better.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Mon Jul 9th, 2007 at 02:47:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's myfootprint.org

I use 3.3

Not the best quiz ever, no.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Jul 9th, 2007 at 11:14:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On the topic of heating:
I find that I don't mind much if the place I live in is cold. An extra sweater and a blanket can do much to keep me warm enough in the winter. I like sleeping in cold rooms a lot and find little reason to heat my bedroom, except for the very coldest days. What I do want to get is an infrared directional heater to turn on when I get out of bed. I find the time between getting out from under my blankets to having my clothes on quite unpleasant in a cold room, and I can spend quite some time dreading to get up and having to confront the cold, which slows me down on cold winter mornings. Electric IR heaters are very nice if one only wants warmth for a short time in one spot. They irradiate you, rather than insisting on heating the entire room. Once I get one of these and set it to turn on 5mn before my alarm clock, I think my quality of getting out of bed in the winter will improve significantly.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Sat Jul 7th, 2007 at 08:50:23 AM EST
The hard nut to crack is the one of getting people to "sacrifice" now so that people in the future will be better off.

There is no current mechanism that rewards those conserving in the present. Depending on altruism is a weak straw to grasp, there are many who think altruism doesn't even exist. (That is what appears to be altruism also provides a reward to the person making the sacrifice - even if it is only psychological.)

I think this realization is why most politicians who favor conservation promote the anticipated rewards of more profitability and business opportunities for green firms. This is still an appeal to growth not to consumption restraint.

People in the past have been asked by their leaders to make enormous sacrifices (think Londoners during the blitz, or the Great Leap Forward) because they were told that the sacrifices were necessary and noble. We have no such leadership currently.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Sat Jul 7th, 2007 at 09:24:51 AM EST
is right on this page, so we have no excuse.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Sun Jul 8th, 2007 at 11:09:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
...to being a bit of a wastrel. I have electric heaters at home, though I like it about 17-18 C inside when it is -20 C outside. The heat goes off in May and comes on again in September. I have an electric sauna which I use for a couple of hours once a week, except for the summer when it might be twice a week - but that usually cleans more bodies than one.

I shower in the morning and it is fast. Our water is heated by a fairly efficient electric boiler in the cellar set at about 60 C. In my opinion it could be set lower - but there is a young kid upstairs. Laundry goes into a modern small washing machine set on the shortest setting at 40 C. Bed linen goes to a service. I have a half-size dish washer. I have no microwave and no oven. But I love cooking and make food from scratch every day.

All this is fairly reasonable, though the sauna is an expensive luxury. Then it gets more damning....

I have a small leased car, and, living in the countryside, would find it hard to survive without it, in my business. I live about 35 kms from Helsinki and often take the bus or train (leaving the car in the carpark) - but only if I have just one or two places to visit and no equipment to cargo. I go into town to work maybe once or twice a week, and very very rarely for recreation.

But then we have the equipment - and the only thing I can say in my defence, is that I work mostly at home and I would find it hard to continue to do what I do without the technology. There's some powerful computers, about a m2 of LCD screens, 2 DVDs, a VHS, a rather heavy sound system (c'mon - I was a record producer once), printers, and a UPS. Most of it is on all day, because I work all day and often through the evening. But, I admit, there is room for savings.

We do have a large compost which is used religiously April - October and I recycle everything (easy to do in Finland). We grow herbs only in the garden, but I wouldn't mind extending that to some non-staples. During the summer I buy quite a lot of local produce.

I do not have a newspaper, nor do I buy any magazines. But I do buy books. I am possibly the worst consumer in our village - the only toy I have is a PS2, now in a cupboard, from when the girls were younger. I rarely buy clothes - but when I do, I go for quality = durability. I do enjoy good wine and other natural substance abuse - the latter from local growers.

The last few years I have severely cut back on flying (mainly due to a change in the business i do), and make maybe one or two personal flights a year, and perhaps only 5 business flights. The rest is by ship to Sweden, or by train, bus or car within Finland.

Compared with most Finns, I have a small footprint (I believe). But that doesn't excuse anything. I sure use a lot of electricity. I've done the obvious things of switching to CF lighting, and  must start killing power whenever possible - so what is the next step?

I think the next step is to use what I know - my trade - to try to persuade others that there are simple 'baby steps' by which we, as a society, could save 10 - 20% of our energy consumption by thoughtfulness. At least it would be a start, and I wouldn't have to grow vegetables or become one. To this end, TGB and I continue to work on a TV format that might make some small contribution.

We will report on progress in due course - probably sometime in August.

Well that was good to get off my chest ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jul 7th, 2007 at 01:06:38 PM EST
Our living situation is in flux so computing the current terron would be of limited value, and embarassing too boot.  

so I won't do it.  ;-p

The new-to-us house¹ is a two story adobe built in the 1910s so it's a real adobe with 20 inch (50.8 centimeters) thick walls.  That thermal mass is a real boon and keeps the interior temperature such that only minor energy input is needed to cool  (ceiling fans) and heat (wood stoves)the place.  Most so-called adobes being built now only use a half-brick as a facade.

A serious problem I faced when I started the re-model was the building codes.  The location is ideal for wind power and we really wanted to get 'off-grid.'  Alas, I would have needed (1) to get a variance which meant going before the county board (a bigger collection of buffoons t'would be hard to beat) and (2) spend $25,000 to establish the system.  

No go.

So I built the electrical system such that we can easily retro-fit to wind when we can slip it past the board and we have the capital.  

We will use propane for cooking and water heating.  I really wanted to put in a solar hot water heater but it would have taken a complete rebuild of the roof and a total retro-fit of the plumbing to do.  

We do have a well tapping the local water table.  Solar powered pumps are readily available so we intend to replace the current grid-based system and install solar to irrigate our gardens and orchard.  Along one south-facing wall I plan to establish pear, fig, pomegranate, peach, and cherry trees.  Pistachio trees will be planted.  I'm going to try to grow oranges, limes, and lemons.  They are marginal but hope is eternal.

We will put 4 raised gardens on the east side of the property.  A movable hoop greenhouse will be used for food production during the short winters.  I haven't decided where to put the herb garden but on the east boundary I plan to establish a rosemary hedge for privacy and as a source.  If our distillation equipment has survived the various moves - I haven't dared to look - we will be able to supply organic tinctures to the local herbalists as barter goods.

Less than an a half a mile (1 kilometer) away are two apple orchards.  They irrigate so I'm hoping to be able to talk them into letting us raise some baa-lambs on their grass.  We don't eat much meat so 4 lambs would more than cover that requirement.

Several people already raise chickens so we hope to be able to tie into that network.  I'd like to find someone who raises ducks, geese, and other 'exotic' poultry.  

No diary that we can find, dammitall.  Unless we can find someone, or talk someone into it, we're going to have to buy our milk and milk products: butter, cheese, yoghurt, kefir, & etc.  mumble-grumble  We prefer sheep's milk, that's past hoping for.  Goat's milk is seasonal and only at obscene prices.  Jersey moo-juice is third and in many years haven't found a supply of that either. We can't even purchase a cow and have it miked for us.  I guess the state of New Mexico is afraid we'll turn into IslamoCommieTerrorist cheesemakers.  "Submit to our demands!  We have mozzarella balls² and we're not afraid to use them!"  So it looks like we're going to be stuck buying that damnable, watery, tasteless, Holstein garbage.  

The point here -- what is the point? -- oh yeah ...

Our Terron rating will be bad from an energy demand/use standard but we should more than make that up on the food supply side.

¹  The place is huge.  The house is over 4,000 square feet on six large lots.  The purchase price was well below $30k.  It needed much work but we were able to buy it so cheaply only because my fellow Americans are insane.  Also we got lucky - we found out it was for sale before anyone else and made our offer quick, quick, quick.

²  Sounds like a "social disease" don't it? "Not right now, dear.  I have mozzarella balls." ;-)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Jul 7th, 2007 at 02:31:05 PM EST
wonderful diary, folks...

the long tail addressed here...jerome's doing the heavy lifting at the short head...

i hope to have lots to share over the next few months, with the installation of minimum 2.5 kw of pv panels, and possibly a add-on greenhouse to help heat in winter.

i also need to install/build water containers to store rainwater and solar-pumped water from the well, to water plants and trees. using water that's too cold fresh from the well is not good for them, plus it just feels right to catch more rain.

just got a a++ rated new fridge/freezer, and have ordered a woodstove which will heat the water in winter, the whole house, and provide an oven for casseroles and bread.

am getting permit to build outside pizza oven.

there ai so much free wood to burn, it makes sense to use it, plus the old method of piling brush and burning it seems wasteful, and in summer is illegal, obviously.

i bought an electric shredder, but have used it only a little, as it pulls 2 kw, and i want to get that juice coming from the sun before i get it going bigtime.

having tried it out, i'm really happy with its ability to create instant mulch from branches up to 4cm wide, excellent for aerating compost piles too. this will be a huge benefit in my soil building, and will make short work of sunflower stalks too.

sunnies grow really well...as in: toss seeds out onto untilled ground and have them come up, but in tilled soil and with watering they thrive like crazy.

apart from usefulness in appetite-suppressing healthy nibbling, a hydraulic press could provide me with good oil, for eating, massaging and even for running a tractor.

i don't hardly use the tractor a few days a year anyway...

monday an bio-engineer is coming to spec out the property for all the potential, and he confirmed that there are some very favorable new laws in the pipeline, to encourage solar energy farming and for add-on greenhouses.

i was just about to plonk down 30% of the solar panel money, had a flash to call a friend, who turned me on to this engineer.

...who told me the panels i was about to buy (chinese) lasted half as long as the ones he sold (german), which also produced up to 5 times the power!

cost a bit more, and he wouldn't be pinned over the phone to the percentage diff.

besides he was raving how i wouldn't have to put out any capital, and good get paid to produce with others' investment, with immediate unlimited free electricity from now on..

will sift through all this new info added to the soup tomorrow and report.

i have a small 5m day-sailboat moored on the lake half an hour's drive away i can sleep out on in the summer, it's fun to go out to the nature preserve bird sanctuary on isola polvese and camp out, as no-one lives there, and all you hear is the beat of big wings, the lapping of the water and the wind in the trees...

so i may be able to generate some extra income renting out the house summertime, and stay down on the water, which makes the ever-warming summers a lot easier to handle.

some great info, thanks, people

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Jul 7th, 2007 at 09:06:56 PM EST
Wondering which language to write "Wow" ... honestly, too tired to do justice in reading this but will return to this (hopefully time and again).

Thank you.

Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart. NOW!!!

by a siegel (siegeadATgmailIGNORETHISdotPLEASEcom) on Sat Jul 7th, 2007 at 11:34:25 PM EST
I'm sure this idea has been brought up on Eurotrib at some point in the past, though I mention it here because it's a new thought to ME, anyway, so:

One way of getting people to reduce their water/gas/electricity use would be to determine a "mean" usage for a household based on the number of occupants, period (NOT square footage or anything else.)  Then if a household used less than the mean, they would pay a smaller rate for that useage (gallons, KwH, etc) but if they used more than that average, they would pay a higher rate, and if they used a LOT more than the average, they would pay a much higher rate for it.

Same thing should apply to car size.  I know in some places people have to pay a tax on their vehicles based on the weight of them, and this should be universal as well, I think.

(We've gotten our electrical consumption down to about 700 KwH per month.  I don't even know if that's very good.)

Nothing new, I suppose, but please don't troll rate me.

Karen in Austin

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Sun Jul 8th, 2007 at 11:33:19 AM EST
(We've gotten our electrical consumption down to about 700 KwH per month.  I don't even know if that's very good.)

700 kWh a month? Well, it's high. In Europe, 3500 kWh a year (slightly below 300 kWh a month) is considered a rule-of-the-thumb household consumption, though I know that the US average is something likje the double. But maybe you aren't average -- how many persons, how many and how big televisions, do you have AC or electric heating?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Jul 8th, 2007 at 01:17:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We have electric air conditioning (a term which really means "cooling" here, as there's not a lot of need for heating) and we keep the thermostat at 79 degrees F when at home.  We have one 32" screen tv.  We added insulation to the "attic" (not much attic in our house, just a bare crawlspace).  There's a ceiling fan in every room. Almost every light bulb in the house is a compact fluorescent, and we turn the lights out when not in use.  

Our house is 1600 square feet, but the guest bedroom is closed off from the cooling when not in use.  We have a large freezer that helps preserve all the things we grow in our garden, and things we get at a good price at farmers' markets.  It supposedly uses 670 KwH per year, according to the label.  There are just two of us living here, though we get lots of visitors and the grandchildren are here a lot.

The usage is lower in "winter" when the cooling is not  as necessary as during the rest of the year, and we heat and cook with natural gas, though we probably don't turn the heat on more than 10 days during the whole winter.

Though not a mechanic by trade, my husband loves to work on autos and motorcycles and to build things and is the guy everyone turns to when they have car/mc trouble, and many of his tools are powered... maybe that accounts for some of the consumption?  And the windows on our little 1950's house are not double-glazed, but we can't afford to replace them just now, so that might be where we lose cooling.  

I'll be keeping an eye on suggestions in all the diaries, though, and other sites, for ways to bring the usage down.  Thanks for the flow of information!

Karen in Austin

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Mon Jul 9th, 2007 at 09:06:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
has been suggested in the Netherlands - and immediately scoffed at - but there are now agencies who offer the service to determine a house's energy usage and report back with recommendations.

Your thought seems to determine what is nowadays a good standard for energy usage - which opens a whole extra can of worms. It may have been suggested before, but surely sensible. I will be busy developing the spreadsheet further, looking for other material and querying other people to do likewise. If there isn't a standard yet, let's develop one.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Mon Jul 9th, 2007 at 02:45:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
hi nomad, thanks for this great diary.

are the pix fixed? still not coming through, is it a dialup thang?

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jul 9th, 2007 at 05:35:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
are coming through here, I only added two pictures: one of my heater and the one on the very end. I think some admin mojo was already released to fix the problems during the weekend - my thanks to those Powers That Be (whomever they are).
by Nomad (Bjinse) on Mon Jul 9th, 2007 at 06:18:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am so happy, proud, amazed and excited by these examples, I don´t know what to say!  Inspired and envious too, that your plans are so much farther along than mine.

My footprint right now may be 2, but I resist calculating it and I try to live by guidelines I make up as I go along.  No dishwasher, no dryer, no vacuum (no carpet), no car, no ironing!, almost no chemicals, heat only the living room (and morning shower) in the winter, bring no "stuff" into the house, but food and drink...

I have a long ways to go to a sustainable, rural community life.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sun Jul 8th, 2007 at 11:44:49 AM EST
bring no "stuff" into the house, but food and drink...

I am still having a hard time with that one, myself... always sorely tempted by yarn shops, thrift shops, sales on art materials (online or in shops), tools, books, movies I like on DVD... we all have our vices and I have often succumbed to the one called "buying yourself toys and goodies to make up for spending 40-60 hrs a week working for someone else."  but after retirement I'll have to watch my expenditures closely and that will cure that particular pathology, real fast :-)

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Sun Jul 8th, 2007 at 05:40:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
seems like it's taken forever to get this far, and the further i get, the more i realise there is that one can do.

so excited to meet this eco-engineer tomorrow!

it sounds like you're pretty conscious about lightening your load on the planet to me.

the best thing is, it's fun!

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 8th, 2007 at 08:14:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I still cannot see those tinypic urls...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...
by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Jul 9th, 2007 at 07:10:04 PM EST
me neevah...oh well, seen one heater, seen 'em all.

signore bio-edilizia came today, and stayed for lunch.

he explained that italy is so behind on its commitments to renewables, that it's up for a hefty fine in 2010 unless things shift rapidos.

he was the wired type, zinging on several espressos, i'd guess, which always has a reverse effect on me...first i try to get a word or two in edgeways, it's supposed to be a dialogue, i thought, then i gave up and let him gush, while i tried to figure him out.

basically he's the 'fixer', it appears, taking cuts for putting the links together, and engineering the overview.

as usual, in italia, things look very positive, at first, but time has a way of revealing flaws in the reasoning, skipped over in the high adrenalin.

'now', he said, 'is the time in italy to get rich on solar.'

'incentivi' up the yin-yang, 'finanziamenti' a gogo, please tell as many people as possible...

so i told the guy in the tile shop i bumped into later on, who's building a warehouse and was just about to order a roof, slipped him the cell number, and felt like this is the new tupperware...

i don't know whether to laugh or cry.

basically over 20 years, with some land turned over to install 20 kw -using the bank's money- i will be paid €500,000.

all this with no electric bills whatsoever...

i said 'what's to stop people going crazy using electricity to heat every room, their water, leave the lights on all night etc?'

he gave me a twinkly look, and said: 'that's the idea!'

yup, same reaction here...it's gotta be a crock, right?

tune in to the next thrilling episode, sometime soon at a blog near you.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jul 9th, 2007 at 07:44:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry to hear the disappointment, but checking all options and pitfalls you will hopefully save on costs and then, if you don´t write a guidebook you can be a local expert!  

It´s frustrating that good plans take so long and discourage people.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Tue Jul 10th, 2007 at 03:33:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i have long given up on people being calm, sane, rational and service-orientated here...

however... i love this country, and share deeply in its aspirations.

i actually wasn't disappointed, except by the one-way nature of the conversation, if what he says is true, and i am coming round to believing it may just be crazy enough to be so, given the italian realities.

here i am trying to keep the woods from invading the rest of the land, and he was telling me to stop heating with wood, it's dirty, noisy work harvesting and splitting it, and i could do as well with a heat pump and everything running off the sun.

part of me agrees with him, as chainsawing is my least favourite activity after dentists...

but i love heating my house and water with wood, that grows right here especially.

tight cycles...

it feels mostly odd, because i've been training myself to use as little electricity as possible, and here's this knowledgeable guy, telling me the opposite.

still waiting for the silent, vibration-free laser chainsaw to be invented!

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jul 10th, 2007 at 09:56:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No here are some people getting real...
The UK could cut carbon emissions to zero in 20 years, but only if people accept a virtual end to air travel and stop using fuel-driven cars, a report claimed yesterday.

    Meat would also need to disappear off many menus and an "armada" of wind turbines would be required to be built around the coast to achieve the goal, according to the new research.

    Money would meanwhile be overtaken in importance by carbon credits traded by everyone using special smart cards.

    The radical vision was put forward by researchers and scientists from the Centre for Alternative Technology (Cat) and was announced as details were revealed of the UK's longest protest march to call for action on climate change.

    The 1000-mile trek around the UK will take in 70 towns and cities and involve an estimated 50,000 people.

    The scientists from Cat set themselves the task of seeing if the UK could cut fossil fuel emissions to zero by 2027.

    They claim achieving such a drastic cut in emissions is possible and may be the only way to tackle climate change.

    Paul Allen, the development director of Cat, said: "What we are saying is that we need a huge programme, a bit like the US space project in the 1960s.

    "When that was launched it was known to be a huge target, but the driving force to make it work was there. We think that zerocarbonbritain can do that again; it can give us a positive future."

    In its report, CAT suggests people would be given their own carbon credits called Tradable Energy Quotas (TEQs) and carry them on the environmental equivalent of the London transport Oyster card. Each year the free allocation would decrease as the country moves towards zero carbon, with the effect that the value of the quotas will go up.

    But every time consumers use fossil fuels, say by filling their cars up with petrol, they would lose valuable credits, forcing them to choose low carbon alternatives.

    The resulting market would drive environmental change, providing the economic incentive to produce green products. One major effect, according to the authors, would be that electric, battery-operated cars would quickly overtake use of the internal combustion engine.

    Households would be forced to invest in ways to make their homes energy efficient, and switch from gas to biofuels or renewable electricity.

    But there would also be "negative" effects in terms of the lifestyle that people currently enjoy.

    Air travel would become far too expensive unless the industry "pulls something out of the hat" and finds a green fuel.

    And the diet of the country would have to change to include far more organically-grown, locally-produced vegetables, and less meat.

    Tens of thousands of wind turbines would be built, mainly around the UK's shores, to provide 50% of the country's new energy needs.

    The rest would come from a combination of biofuel "combined heat and power" stations, wave power, hydroelectricity and tidal schemes.

    Meanwhile, walkers from around the world are preparing to embark on what organisers believe will be the UK's longest protest march to call for action on climate change.

    Campaigners will set out from Northern Ireland next Saturday on a 1000-mile trek around the UK taking in 70 towns and cities, finishing at the London Stock Exchange 11 weeks later.

    An estimated 50,000 people are expected to join the walkers at different points, gathering signatures for a petition calling on Gordon Brown to bring in a new law forcing companies to reveal their carbon dioxide emissions.

and the usual suspects proposing too-little-too-late self-serving bandaids.

    In another move to tackle climate change, Boeing has unveiled its new "green" 787 Dreamliner aircraft powered by Rolls-Royce engines. The 250-seat plane will fly for the first time this autumn and will go into passenger service in May 2008.

    With Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines, the Dreamliner is 25% British-made.

    Boeing boasts that the plane will use 20% less fuel per passenger than similarly sized aircraft, will produce fewer carbon emissions and will have quieter take-offs and landings.

wow, a 20 percent reduction, I'm so [not] impresssed.

game over -- reset... one way or another.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Jul 9th, 2007 at 07:26:22 PM EST
first word shoulda been Now, not No

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...
by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Jul 9th, 2007 at 07:27:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Occasional Series