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Why S. Royal, irrespectively of politics

by Agnes a Paris Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 08:23:43 PM EST

Warning: this diary is not about facts, it's about perceptions. Politics are based on perceptions, policies on facts, or more precisely the translation thereof into actions with the unavoidable bias of public opinion.
Another warning: by ET standards, I consider my political culture rather poor. I will not write about what I don't know. This lack of political culture is rooted in a childhood lived in a communist country, teen years spent in Africa with very restricted exposure to the media,  consistent reading of Le Canard Enchaine since I settled in France more than ten years ago. True, the third factor should have made up for the first two. Instead, this insider peak fostered a consistent and growing dismay at the French political establishment as a whole, "tous pourris".

My heart drives me to be more interested in what is going on in Poland, my native country, and reason makes me prefer the UK, where you can pass by 10, Downing Street on a ordinary day without being summoned to the opposite sidewalk by the police guarding what we call in France the Palaces of the Republic, even if T. Blair being interviewed on a rainy morning with his steaming cup of tea looks a little mise en scene as well.
Being eligible to vote on local elections in the UK, I do so with the feeling that my vote might bring about more change than it would do in France. Again, this is about perceptions, not reality, which has always been a puzzling concept to me altogether.
I try very hard to understand what is at stake when going to the polls is on the agenda, and am proud to say I never missed an election, as a Polish or French citizen, even when I lived in the UK.

Enough background. There are bound to be numerous diaries on the forthcoming French general elections, and no doubt the informative value of mine is edging towards zero in comparison.
This diary conveys a personal view (again). Which opens the thread to other, potentially discording views. That's what drives me when I write : express what I think, partial and biased as it may be, to make room for other opinions. I would not argue with someone I don't respect, and that's why I like ET.

Why do I stand for Segolene Royal, despite the oblivion I've been so far of her program- my personal issues are there to blame, not to display.


-For the first time in the history of France's "modern" politics, a woman will stand to presidential elections with chances to gain more than 5% of the electorate in the first round. OK, Arlette Laguiller has been around for a while, but not in the same league.

-This woman is reasonably young, and a chance for France to change from a gerontocracy to a governmental team more in line with European standards. For the record, Chirac is wobbling towards his eighties.

-This woman will go (and already has) through tough times. Politics is a dirty game, and if this woman keeps displaying the determination she showed so far to stand firm, with style,  to tacky comments and other intimidation methods widely used in a still very patriarchal and misogynic country, well this woman has the guts to be our future President.

-Last but not least:  Segolene Royal is attractive, and this comes into the balance. Rule of thumb: it's tougher to make one's way to the top when you are an attractive woman. First you need to prove the fairy godmother did not forget your brains when she gifted you with the looks. And then, your contenders, male and female, will charge you with sleeping your way to the top.

Segolene Royal epitomises the modern woman : a family, a career, ambition and no misplaced shame thereof, belief that you can get somewhere without replicating the pattern for success set by men, that you can be tenacious and resilient without being stubborn and unyielding.

On these grounds, I say good luck. It's not about kicking any man's ass (even if that would do Sarkozy a hell lot of good). It's about a wind of change that may turn the French into a less self-demeaning nation. Last time was World Cup victory. It's about time we have more enduring motives.

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It seems that my brain activity has been experiencing a post-midnight peak lately. Freed of office work, I guess ;-) Would not take a bet on the quality of my literary production, though ;-)

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 08:27:03 PM EST
on the same topic
Celebrity Royal to lead the French left to Presidency ?

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 08:42:45 PM EST
Did not need to go back too far in ET history to find a great diary on the French Presidential election race Tale of Three candidates
Hope afew will be carrying on this coverage.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 02:54:38 AM EST
Thanks, Agnes. Yes, we'll have to have one soon on the UMPers, won't we?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 04:06:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
in this diary is that Segolene Royal had good chances to "attract" the sleeping electorate, those who no longer (or not yet) believe that there can be a major political upheaval in France.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 02:58:38 AM EST
I think you're right - she will quite probably bring out people who don't usually vote.

Yet another reason (apart from messing up Sarkozy's plans) why it was not a bad idea to start campaigning early : people can register to vote until 31st December, not afterwards.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 04:04:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You have to register? Don't people in France have ID cards?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 05:18:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but it's not a voter card. You have to register, and for next year's elections the limit is the end of this year.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 05:23:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But what exactly is a voter card for, if you can prove your identity?

Also, if you have registration, are official turnout figures in elections a percentage of voting-age people, or a percentage of registered voters?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 05:37:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but my idea was that it is percentage of registered voters. Whether those who did not take the time/did not know about the necessity to register can actually show up on the day of the election and vote I don't know.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 09:02:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am as surprised as DoDo.

If you do not have a national system of identification I understand that you need a register for voting (like in USA). But if you have national ID cards, then you can prove your identity so why a seperate registration?

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 05:42:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Spain the electoral census is drawn automatically, and though you do get a voter registration card mailed to you (just to confirm your registration) you do not need it (nor is it valid) in order to vote, you just need your ID card, passport or driver's licence [the only government-issued ID, and so the only ones accepted]

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 06:12:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That pretty much describes the swedish system to.

The voting registration card tells you which elections you can vote in and were your polling station is.

The voter registration card I think is also used (and needed) if you vote in advance, which you can do for the two weeks preceding the election at postal offices, libraries and such. You then also need an ID card, passport or driver's licence (ID cards are btw issued by banks in Sweden but are as valid as government-issued passports or driver's licence).

Maybe it is to make sure your vote is forwarded to the right polling station. If you both vote in advance and on the election day I think the later vote takes precedence.

If you lack a valid ID you can vote on the election day if you bring someone can ID themselves and who testifies that you are who you say you are.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 08:12:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In France you don't need the voter card for voting, ID will suffice. But you must be on the registered voters roll; those liste are built by the municipalities (ID cards are issued by the prefecture) and you have to proove that you've been living in the municipality for some length of time. Checks are then made that nobody
is on two different rolls. How is voting in two places prevented without specific voting rolls? also not that the national ID card is not all that compulsory ; passport and driving licenses are also ID proofs, and may not show the same adresses.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 11:51:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't you have to register locally anyway for tax purposes?

BTW, welcome back to ET!

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 03:44:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
After some troubles with lists about six decades ago, France has decided to keeps its various lists separate, and is wary about attempts to mesh them.

Voter rolls are only used for jury and poll purposes, and are set up by the municipalities ; Tax rolls don't care about nationality, and are set up by the State. Also means that you can vote even though you are cheating the tax man, also,tax rolls probably don't know everybody ; married couples count as one for the tax administration, etc... Finally, some people might chose to vote in their village in the province but pay tax in Paris... (e.g. All politicians vote in their fief in some small provincial village, but live in Paris most of the time)

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 06:30:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ome people might chose to vote in their village in the province but pay tax in Paris

I think that is a bad thing.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 06:32:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Arguably. Don't forget though that many people come to Paris for a few years, to kickstart their careers or because they are ordered to by the government (most state employees start their career in the suburb of Paris before fleeing back home). They often remin interested in the place they'll spend their life rather than their temporary home.

In reply to another comment of yours furthjer down, in France local authorities can't decide to raise new taxes ; they only decide the rate of state-defined taxes. All taxes are collected by the Direction générale des impôts, and then redistributed to local authorities.

Ho, and I never left, spent much time lurking. I just don't comment often :)

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 10:02:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Regarding Paris-hometown hoppers, I am not against keeping up connections to the hometown -- to the contrary, I think it would be better for them if they'd get not only people's vote but taxes too.

Regarding the tax collecting/distributing system, then it seems it is not much different from what we have here. Here, one of the two main tax sources of local authorities is a fixed percentage of the income tax of its registered inhabitants (which, as in France, the tax authority collects but then redistributes to local authorities according to residence registration data).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 10:49:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So you're ok with people keeping their voting rights in their hometown within a country, but think expatriates shouldn't have voting rights in their home country?

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 10:54:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My standard is exactly the same: where do you keep registered residence.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 11:04:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As to taxes, it should be noted that those taxes that are redirected to the municipalities, départements and région are inherently territorial ; whereas income tax goes directly and wholly to the State, it is the Taxe Foncière (tax on private property of land and buildings) and Taxe d'Habitation (tax on on occupying an habitation ; it is payed for secondary houses too). So that if effect the hometown does keep the taxes too.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Dec 3rd, 2006 at 06:38:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In that case, I am really curious how France's 75-80% turnout figures look when changing from registered population to all voting-age population.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 10:29:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and do not seem able to come up with something consistent and intelligible re the way turnout in polls is accounted for in France. Afew, do you have a clue ?

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 10:46:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As far as I've seen it done, turnout figures are given relative to the voting lists, ie the percentage of registered voters who came in to vote.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 12:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A voter card may indeed appear superfluous. But (in practice) French ID is often out-of-date concerning address. The officials running the polling station may reject an ID card if the details don't tally with the list.

The main thing is voter registration. Why is this surprising? Lists have to be compiled, or what is your ID to be checked against?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 02:33:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, in Hungary, you have to register with local authorities one place where you live, and can vote only there, but that registration is compulsory and not only for elections (also for taxes).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 03:43:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Foreigners (including EU) must do this in France, not nationals. For tax purposes, that is with the tax authorities, not the municipality. And a person may have property, or reside, in several places, and therefore pay tax in two or more municipal districts or wards in big towns. So voter registration is a way of opting for where you vote.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 06:14:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But don't you have to register a 'primary residence', and don't some taxes (say income tax) only correspond with that place? Also, is France still that much centralised that local authorities don't have a share in the tax (only money assigned by the central government)?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 06:20:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You have a primary residence. But you can opt to vote in the place of your secondary residence. You pay local taxes on both.

Income tax documents use your primary residence address, but you can just as well file your returns and pay through Internet, there is no formal link with local authorities.

The redistribution from the central State to local authorities, as far as I know, has no connection with income tax as such. It just comes out of the Treasury (afaik).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 11:38:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Same in Sweden, you have a primary residence, which is then used both for taxation and voting purposes.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 08:15:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, if Segolène Royal's politics were like Thatcher's, I'd advocate voting for someone else. So not exactly Irrespective of Politics.

Think Rita Verdonk, or Pia Kjærsgaard, or Ann Coulter. Eeew.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 04:54:33 AM EST
"Why I stand for SR" obviously conveys the message that I advocate to vote for her ; what I actually meant is why she deserves being considered, on top of the quality of her political agenda.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 05:14:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Battle for values leads Royal's poll campaign

As in many other western democracies, France has moved into a post-ideological age where politicians' values rather than their doctrines help define them.

The startling rise of Ségolène Royal would seem to support the theory. The opposition Socialist party's newly elected presidential candidate is championing a very different style of politics and uses a very different vocabulary from most French politicians.

Her former junior ministerial roles in education, family affairs and the environment have helped her talk most convincingly about issues touching the everyday lives of voters. Her policies on these subjects, she suggests, will be flexible but her values will be unbending.

"I want us to lead a battle of values and I am already engaged in it," she said on Sunday as she was formally anointed her party's presidential candidate. "The disorders of the world, of money, of the environment, of war, of famines, of pandemics, of families, of work pull lives apart, starting with the most fragile. That is why the battle with the right in this campaign will above all be a battle of values."

(...)

Inspired by traditional, Catholic, moral and egalitarian values, she is searching, he says, for concepts that are "more modernising or Blairist or altermondialiste [those who support a more socially and environmentally friendly form of globalisation]".

(...)

"In facing globalisation she realises you must have a powerful state. You will find these ideas in the first left, which is more Jacobin in inspiration," Mr Mignard says in an interview.

"But in her views on the relationship between the political powers and the citizens, the party and the citizen, and on participative democracy, she supports the formulas of the second left.

This is a non-statist, decentralising left, which makes civil society the core of the project, believing in participative democracy. The importance is put on what works."

Ms Royal's ideological flexibility - encased within a framework of values - serves a clear tactical purpose.

(...)

"No one can say that she's incoherent," says one veteran political observer. "But if tomorrow she were to say that she would abolish the wealth tax I would not be surprised, just as if she said that she would nationalise all the companies in the CAC-40."

The whole article is interesting (and might be worth a diary of its own), but I wanted to flag that last paragraph: call me paranoid, but this sounds to me like a warning shot to business: don't fall under her spell and support her too much, she is still a lefty with crazy ideas...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 09:48:00 AM EST
On the final paragraph - she (I think sincerely) believes in decentralisation and direct democracy, but she does not deny the State its prerogatives.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 04:02:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I heard of a very good documentary broadcast on
Canal + tonight, reportedly providing quite a interesting insight into the Primaires of the Socialist party.
There is an amazing bit where Segolene Royal, in a closed-ranks meeting while speaks of herself "a la troisieme personne" while providing campaigning instructions. Talk of an ego ...

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 09:17:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
had she banked on the values of feminine modesty and demureness, she'd never have swept DSK the way she did. The man BTW is a fake leftist.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 09:22:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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