Perhaps another approach would be to accept that with modern technology, people live longer, and that the economic system must be adjusted to accomodate that change.

And then there is the question of how many people are really needed: One might argue that the post-agricultural, pre-industrial age population (global value of a few hundred million) should be the target, since that was clearly a sustainable figure.

I like low birth rates... I hope all the world would do the same.

Besides, everything is fixed in one hundred years....the transition to new forms of energy is a much more difficult problem to solve thant fertility.

The goal of fertility policies is not to have children but to have WHITE children...If there were this lack of babies.. well you just have to IMPORT it... ( he he he he I love to use the word import for babies...) Call me an idealist antiauthoritarian anarchist.. but as any physicis can attest when there is a gradient there is a force.. and I am all for letting the gradient equilibrate.. so inmigrants.. PLEASE COME.

A pleasure.

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

Furthermore, immigration is becoming a more important issue, because immigration inflows are likely to increase. And increased immigration, in turn, can make important contributions to labor supply and fertility levels in the EU. Hence, member states must ensure the economic and social integration of immigrants. Integration should include access to the labor market, education and language skills, housing and urban issues, health and social services, social and cultural environment, as well as civil and political rights.

And meanwhile, us youthful old folks with leftist ideals will become the leaders (hopefully good ones...)

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

The other issue is the age distribution. It is true that the population is getting older in certain places, but that is mostly due to the decline in the death rate. If the death rate had stayed stable the drop off in birth rate would have just led to a smaller population eventually. So the important thing is to adapt the society to the existence of more old people. There are lots of things that can be done. For example, people could have two careers. One during their normal work years, and the other a "retirement" career. Many tasks which are under performed these days can be done by older people. This includes things like tutoring or baby sitting. Providing companionship and/or housekeeping services for those who can't do for themselves. Other service things which can be done remotely or without much physical effort can be done. Instead of telephone support in India, it could be done from a person's home.

There will also be improvements in technology which will keep people in better health in old age. Changes in the aims of society are also possible. Without the need for people to accumulate "stuff" at such a rate the need for manufacturing, distribution and sales activities decreases. This allows fewer people to satisfy smaller demand.

The false belief that economies need to grow in order to cause industry to grow and wealth to increase is what underlies much of the concern. A steady-state economy will not be subject to the same pressures.


Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

This trend is coupled with a recently detected decrease in a hormone that women produce (whose name escapes me for the moment) during intercourse, that descends to meet the sperm hooligans and kicks them into whipping their tails all the more strongly as they swim up to Nirvana.

Since we are seeing falls of 50% or more, I would rate this is an extremely important contributor to falling birth rates.

You can't be me, I'm taken

young soldiers on military service were beoing given porn mags and asked (told?) to masturbate. the sperm was to be frozen and used for the future italian gene bank, as the population was declining so rapidly.

i never heard any more about this...

i used to believe (since reading 'diet for a smal planet') that we could support all the billions on the earth, if we could only get our diets back in line with nature.

i still believe this theoretically, but my biggest fear about overpopulation these days is the chaos of crowds, scaled up.

as for immigration, it's inevitable and natural, yet a lot of what is felt to be racism stems from a natural desire to be surrounded with a matrix of dependability; one sleeps better at night knowing a bit about one's neighbours.

if we open up to the financial benefits of immigration - and we can't afford not to, imo - then we have to take their attitudes also, we can't just tempt them here with higher wages and expect them to leave their cultures at the fortress gate.

as kc curie says, our energy problem is the biggest obstacle right now; a more disciplined and thrifty society will be more pragmatic, less fraught with consumerism, planned obsolescence and myopic planning.

aside from the sperm count issue, which is very important for its reflection on the effects on the human body from decades of pollution and overstress, there is the notion of trust in the future and the ability to guarantee an environment of security, financial and otherwise, in which to satisfactorily raise a child. after observing the scene in italy, i believe this to be true here.

people know the dangers of raising single children, so perhaps wait to have one till they are stable enough to have more.

the anomaly of france: i'm telling ya, it's the CAP and the love for the fruits of the land.... or those nice nuke plants making them feel all secure! (see, we won't have to raise our son to just go die in some oil war)

<snark, maybe>

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty