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Today's ET agony section : "I never manage to say NO"

by Agnes a Paris Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 09:35:31 AM EST

A quickly put together thread to develop the agony project.
I had a nice chat with a friend yesterday evening.  We had to scale down the dinner we had planned to spend together to a phone call as she was too tired to get out again having returned back home after work.

She was feeling frustrated and I also sensed a feeling of guilt as she had to cancel me even if I genuinely could not blame her for choosing to have, for once, some time for herself for a change instead of spending 24/7 non quality time trying to please everyone by saying yes.
Well, the first answer is : never get back home if you are headed for an evening out : go directly from the office to the dinner/party/concert.<s>
Let's be serious here and try and investigate why it may be so hard to say NO that our agenda gets overbooked without our knowledge until we find out we cannot cope.


The underlying problem we all need to tackle at some point in our life is the aversion to say NO. This aversion varies according to our life (and most of all, childhood) experience of the reactions to our saying NO.
If the feed back we got eraly on in life from our NOs was predominantly negative, NO ends up being construed as rejection in our mental scheme. NO and "I do not care about you" are a perfect match.
When reproached with something at work, we may find it difficult to focus on the issue and how we can improve our competence, because we tend to think the blame is an evidence of us being disliked, victimised. We question ourselves, and not the way we acted. We cannot put the situation into perspective because what is wrong is basically our inner self, not the report or the client meeting.
In the private sphere, we fear that the relationship cannot sustain a NO, so we often say a reluctant YES, then have second thoughts.
The more often we respond with a half-hearted YES, the less tolerant we get to professional or private solicitations.
Very social people end up not answering the phone at all and eventually shrieking "let go of me !!".
Those less demonstrative or lacking self-confidence will bear (and blame) it on themselves until their unsatisfaction with the situation turns into a feeling of inadequacy and ultimately,depression.

So let's learn to say NO ! To be able to respond YES with full appreciation of the situation and enjoy the good moments or not find ourselves overburdened with the work our colleagues managed to turn down, we have to practise saying NO, from time to time; this is the way to true consent.

This is only theory. Practically speaking, once again, sharing the experience of how we learnt to say NO can be very helpful for each of us to find our own personal way to handle fear of disappointing those who matter in our life. The thread is yours.

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Apparently, saying NO is not a problem for anyone around here :)
Too busy throwing paves, eh ?

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 10:59:09 AM EST
Too much serious - in the economic/politics sense - going on around here. The lighter/human interest diaries get picked up in the evening more. If you watch, we front pagers tend to keep them until later in the day before posting/promoting them. Partially it's because the Americans turn up then and they feel happier doing the lighter stuff than getting stuck into the details of Europe focused stuff and partly it's because people's minds are looking for light relief in the evening.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:04:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, I was not complaining, for once ! :)
Hope you have a great week end celebrating St Patrick's.

I browsed though your website yesterday and your garden looks great. The wedding pictures are  fantastic as well. Sorry to discover that so late.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:09:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
completly O.T but I wanted to ask this question and I am in Agony and I am going to have no computer access for the weekend.

Will we get dKos's new scoop? Have you asked, Colman? Would that be possible to implement here?

Not that I dislike our system here, but I crave unnessesary change that I don;t have to implement...

by PeWi on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 12:19:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Let me practise this "no thing".
Will we get dKos's new scoop?
This is obviosly IMHO, but I find DKoz to be a disease, in the sense of not allowing balanced discussion.  So I would say:

Noooooooooooooooo.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

How am I doing, Agnes?

by wchurchill on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:01:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
very balanced...... (-:
by PeWi on Sun Mar 19th, 2006 at 03:05:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
to office work and my computer until Monday morning. Have a nice week end, everyone.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:00:34 AM EST
The desire to feel loved, stemming possibly from a tendancy towards gregariousness is very strong among humans, so on that basis saying NO is difficult for many, me included.

I know some formerly gentle people who've undergone therapy, and who were consequently metamorphosed into NO-saying people (because their psychologist encouraged them to work on this aspect of their personality).

Now they have definitely gained some independence by doing this. In some cases they have gained self-respect or managed to push off people who were bad to them.

But overall, frankly, I liked them before. Because in all cases, saying NO has now become a crusade for them: "Ha, I said NO to you, see I am independent and the most important person in my life is me now, so again, I say NO and NO NO NO to you. I am now a knight who says ... NO! NO! NO!". Their heart dries out and if that is the price to pay for independence, then I think it's too high a price.

One must keep on fighting for one's rights, but one must also keep on being human.

So say I.

by Alex in Toulouse on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:27:02 AM EST
Here's a "no" me and Lil are grappling with: our dear and much beloved nephew is now volunteering to teach English in a Rio de Janeiro favela...I mean, it's really great he's doing that...but there are gun battles, military raids, military checkpoints, and someone apparently even through a grenade or two!! I'm thinking "what the fuck are you doing there???" I certain there are other places to give his time that will be just as helpful , but not dangerous. And frankly, I pissed at the organization that would put a volunteer in a situation where there is periodic shooting. Not cool.
So I've written him and have expressed our concerns...I don't have a "no" in this situation, but I'm letting him know we don^t like it and are worried. That's our agony for the moment...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:30:02 AM EST
Sometimes there is wisdom you cannot convey, people just need to make their own experience and go through it, especially young people, all the more so if they happen to be in a "contradiction fuels decision" mood.
All you can do is provide as much thought provoking, objective information you can for your nephew to have all the relevant data at hand.
Idealism is a double-edged sword : young people cannot make it through life without it, but it has to be channelled sometimes. That's all I can say, it's not much but Eurostar will not wait fort me :)
Hope all goes well for you and Lilly.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:48:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I sent him a note and had my feelings. Let's see where it goes...but I felt I needed to at least say something...its up to him...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 01:05:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I left my desk in work on Thursday with a stack of 'work in progress'.  A chunk of it is there because I didn't say NO when someone asked me to 'do them a favour'.  I get more done when I'm busy...but it's getting ridiculous.  I will have to start saying NO and strangely the people asking for more stuff to be done are not going to understand but they'll just have to get used to it.  
If people think that you will always say yes to everything they'll never think that there's a point at which 'yes' becomes impossible.  A little 'No' now and again and a simple explanation as to why you can't do that thing right now when they need it will teach them that they need to respect you and not take you for granted.
I know in my case that it'll be tough when all of the next level managers are male and they think they're better due to title (...oh...and possibly that little anatomical difference)..but I'm willing to put the effort in and am determined to win.

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
by Sam on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 05:03:44 PM EST
"A little 'No' now and again and a simple explanation as to why you can't do that thing right now when they need it will teach them that they need to respect you and not take you for granted."

Great explanation, Sam, but I'd take it a step further and ditch the simple explanation part.  That opens up the door to all kinds of arguments you may not be able or willing to counter.  And people will try to convince you, especially if they're used to having you do stuff for them.

The best way I've found is to just say "No, I'm sorry.  I can't."  Invariably you'll get asked "why not?" and that's really not up to you to defend.  They're asking the favor so it's not up to you to say why you can't do it, it's up to them to say why you should.  I always respond to "why not" with "why, is it an emergency/important?"  They then have to explain the nature of their problem.  Sometimes it is something serious and I'll say okay, but most of the time it's not and they'll back down.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 05:31:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, unfortunately you're right.  I'll try getting them to justify their 'urgent requests' and see how it goes.

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
by Sam on Sat Mar 18th, 2006 at 01:31:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Apologies to all of you I have been computer deprived form Friday end afternoon until now and I feel I failed you, still Izzy did a great job and that's exactly what this thread is about : there is no agony aunt exclusivity.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 08:26:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dear Agnesa, I have the same problem saying "NO", but still I have not figured a way out of this embarrassing situation. I guess, it is just that I feel badly when someone asks me a favour and I refuse to do it:( It is difficult to disappoint people and moreover, you want to rely on them later. But if you say too often "No", later you will have no one to rely on. Thus, a part of the problem to say a firm "no" is rooted in our thoughts: "but what comes after that?will she/he be angry at me? will I betray our friendship?". Saying "no" may turn out to be extremely positive and even healthy once you learn to say "no". But until then... 2 years ago, there was this tendency that I write essays for my friends. I am really interested in literature and they all know that perfectly well. Besides, they know that I am serious enough and if they ask me to write an essay and I accept, I will put enough efforts. So, it all started when a friend asked me to write his essay and I said "yes" immediately. I spent 2 days working on it and when he saw it,he was really pleased with the result. His grade was also good,actually pretty good. So, he told my other friends how good I was at that and everything began... They all started asking me to write essays (both in Bulgarian and English) and it seemed they would never stop asking. Well, sometimes I really wanted to scream "no,please, no more essays" but I could not,I just could not:( However, once I had a really busy week with a lot of things to do. So when a friend asked me to write his essay I just said "No". It was not a firm "no",rather a desperate "no",but still a "NO". Of course, he got mad and asked "how could you write all the other essays for the other people and now you don't want to write this one for me,it is my first time I am asking you to" Well, it was really the first time and I was really busy,but I felt badly.. So, after this event, most of my friends stopped asking me to write their essays. Probably because of what happened or simply because they do not have to write literature essays now, when they are at the university. But unfortunately I, still cannot say "No" and if someone of them comes and asks me to write her/his essay, I will accept!
by hitchhiker on Sat Mar 18th, 2006 at 03:46:56 PM EST
The diagnostic : What is worth thinking over is that your saying YES seems to have become a condition precedent to keeping people's friendship. That seems to go along with doing them favours.
What does that say about your doubts that you deserve care and affection irrespectively of any favour you give people ? My answer is : you do, as a person, and you are 10 rimes  more worthy than those taking advantage of your kindness.
Even if yours is a college environment, the same thing happens at work, even if it is indeed easier to discriminate things in the business world as you are not supposed to be there to make friends but money.

The guideline is to try and never to mix up personal feelings (of which friendship) with business interests (grades and writing essays belong to that). First point. People take advantage of your being unable to say NO and I'd say, more, some of them may go as far as manipulate you by using the friendship pretext to get what they want (you write their essays).

That said, it is not surprising that once people got used to your writing their essays or doing the task they declined to do, your changing your mind is unsettling for them so they are inclined to blame you. People have a natural aversion to change.

Two ways out : either you can sustain the blame, or not. If not, and you have nothing to feel uncomfortable about, growing is about getting more resilient, then start your saying NO lessons with a fresh topic.
Starting with something that does nor carry too much emotional weight can help.  

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 08:41:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dear Agnesa, thank you a lot for the precious piece of advice! I really appreciate it and to tell you the truth, similar thoughts have crossed my mind? As for example, are some of my friends "my friends" simply because I write their essays? Or, will they stop being my friends if I refuse to write an essay? However, the more important question is: Do I need such friends who stay around in order to use me in some way? I guess, no:( So, I really should learn saying "Nos" more often!
by hitchhiker on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:46:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You see, all you needed was to put things neatly down in writing. Once you came to see that by yourself, let me share with you my own experience back at high school. I was so anxious to be popular that I spent half of my working time actually doing others' work. And as girls tend to gossip more than guys, it quickly came back to my ears that my attitude did not earn me either gratitude or even respect, quite the contrary.

Same thing in the working environment. I never take on someone else's duties, unless I come under strong pressure and my help is perceived as critical as my boss had to dedicate a lot of time to talk me into doing it, so he greatly values the work done (even if it was petty in the first place).
I have often heard my bosses say that if X. or Y. so willingly accepted to take over additional tasks, it's because they did not have enough work on their own !

In a nutshell, my advice here is to stop thinking that you can be appreciated only because you can be used in some way. Gratitude comes from real friends, not from people who take advantage of you.


When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 03:03:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you a lot Agnesa! I will try to remember your last sentence that gratitude comes from real friends, not from people who take advantage from me. Besides, I really do not expect someone to respect me just because I do his/her work. To be honest, I do not want to respect me just because of this:( So, let's hope that there are real friends around me who will love me even if I do not write their essays:)And I know, I have several such friends!
by hitchhiker on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 04:45:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No matter how hard one tries, there will always be somebody who will be dissatisfied with you. I have already gotten rid of the desire to please everybody. The more I'm learning to say "no", when somebody is asking me to do something I cannnot, do not want, or would not do, the more comfortable I feel with myself.
I know that there are some people who always have the feeling that all the others owe them something, but anytime they are asked to do something in return, they refuse it. These I do not want to tolerate anymore.
I believe we must learn how to value our personal time and our work. These are products that are not for everybody's free use, and letting the others abuse them, is simply us underestimating our own potential.
And the more frequently we say "no", the more appreciated a "yes" is;-)

I can resist anything but temptation.- Oscar Wilde
by Little L (ljolito (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sat Mar 18th, 2006 at 04:32:17 PM EST


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