Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Last weekend's gossip: It's all here!!! :) (Well, it's a start)

by Barbara Mon May 22nd, 2006 at 07:02:33 PM EST

When Miguel presented me with the idea of going to the ET meeting a few months ago, I wasn't exactly elated about it. The prospect of travelling to a different country with a hyperactive preschooler just to have lunch with a bunch of socially anxious people talking through their laptops while touching elbows and occasionally peering at one another though yoghurt bottom glasses failed to stir much passion in me. My grudge against ET the vampire of family/couple time certainly didn't make things any better. I wasn't even lured by the thought to see Paris, although I had never been there before... I thought the time was too short to see or do anything at all. I hate being a racing tourist with a checklist more than anything. I wanted to savour Paris, wander around in the streets, buy copies of art nouveau posters and great retro postcards to frame and hang in my house, eat leisurely a large creme-brulee and visit at least a dozen of chocolate and cheese shops. A friendly bed-and-breakfast would fit in there somewhere, too. This one-nighter in a cheapo hotel with trains rumbling under the windows wouldn't even come close, or so I thought. If you can't do it right, why do it at all?


Well, in spite of myself I did end up going, and now I'm back. I didn't buy copies of posters and didn't eat any chocolate truffles. I didn't go to a cheese shop. I got rained on severely on the way to the restaurant conveniently located about fifty miles from the station (at that time I wasn't able to appreciate the reason), and I thought my hair was going to be ripped out and hurled into the murky Seine waters by the wind (and I thought that London was windy). I did eat a large creme-brulee and my monthly allowance of meat in less than two hours, and drank about as much wine. My hyperactive preschooler was happily occupied with little Jeromes (blessed be Ingrid, Jerome's wife, for arranging babysitting, and blessed be Jerome for having us meet fifty miles from the train station and ten meters from the entrance to his flat). He caused me distress only briefly when he came by the restaurant at some point and while demonstrating scooter riding he threw himself into the only puddle on the street.  

The company was decent as well, I should say. I didn't see many yoghurt bottom specks, and there was only one laptop on the table... two, actually, one of them a white Apple (Merry's) given with love to her by her husband PeWi, who ensures on daily basis that it runs smoothly and does not deteriorate from lack of use. How thoughtful. The other one was Colman's, of course. He was too far from PeWi to touch elbows with him, which was probably a good thing. I'm not sure how Jerome survived without one that afternoon, but perhaps the thought of having it only ten meters away was soothing enough (forget about the kids!). "So, how do you deal with Jerome living on ET?" I asked Ingrid in the lift. "I scream", she said. A good method. I will use it more often.

It would be interesting to have the list of the subject that ETs talked about this past weekend. I can only name the ones I was involved in:

Dowsing (for details, ask Helen), 9/11, Katrina, consumption, waste, Mexico, translation, intepreting and other language stuff, why men are bad company during labour, testosterone, conspiracy theories, London pubs (for details, ask Helen), being an ET widow, yoga, life in the US, life in Europe, genes and their influence on personality, the enneagram, infidelity, the Holocaust, Rudolf's report,... I think I will stop here. As you can see, not that much about politics, at least not directly. I think this meeting would be a very good case study comparing men's and women's social behaviour. We talked about it with Miguel on the way home: while the men related to and got to know each other via abstract concepts and discussion about outside events, women went straight to the core, asking questions about each other's life and wanting to learn about the person: who are you? what do you do? do I share anything with you? what do you think of x y z? would I like you as a friend? I do have to admit that I wish I lived closer to many of the people I met this weekend, men and women alike, and yes, I would love to have a few as my friends. I felt at home.

So, in the end, I didn't see much of Paris, just as I had expected. The more I got to know others, the less I was interested in visiting cheese shops (camemberts and reblochons, please forgive me). I realized that Paris will be there the next time I come, but these people might not. Or am I wrong? Where is the next meeting?

Display:
Barbara - just the right person to start the text version of the Paris Meetup report. Merci and I hope to see you in Paris, Toulouse or somewhere else next time.

At the risk of provoking a fire storm can I ask in the end was the live ET multilingual or English (as in the language not England)?

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Mon May 22nd, 2006 at 07:46:54 PM EST
Yes, it was multilingual, English, French and German. At least these were the languages I head being used.

Oh, and Barbara if I have not been dreaming, Jérôme was there with his laptop too. :-)

And you really captured nice the spirit of the meeting. It really would be nice if this could become a yearly event.

by Fran on Mon May 22nd, 2006 at 11:52:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you, Fran! BTW, I thought Jerome was using Colman's and PeWi's laptops...

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon
by Barbara on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 04:58:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I had mine.

The real odd man out was ThatBritGuy with - gasp - a PC laptop! All others had Macs.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 05:14:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I must confess I had a PC laptop, but I didn't open it...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 03:10:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have never heard Ingrid scream. ;-)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 01:29:23 AM EST
She does it when you're not there?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 01:43:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or maybe he is plugging his ears while blogging.
by Fran on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 01:48:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But I am always there.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 04:56:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh man, that's what Miguel says each time... well, I'm just right there with you guys! ;)

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon
by Barbara on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 04:59:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I'm sure she screams only when he is absent, at ET.

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.
by technopolitical on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 02:00:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You're telling me you were all in lovely Paris and spent most of the time discussing the US? What kind of bizarre sadism is that?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 01:59:28 AM EST
while the men related to and got to know each other via abstract concepts

Which is to say we talked about what we do...
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 02:55:23 AM EST
From kcurie's diary Poetry and Music, I'm taking this verse that fits my feelings about the people at the meet-up :

Bonita la gente que viene y que va
(nice the people who come and who go)
bonita la gente que no se detiene
(nice the people who do not stop)
bonita la gente que no tiene edad
(nice the people who have no age)
que escucha, que entiende, que tiene y que da
(who listen, who understand, who have and who give)

Thanks for your diary, Barbara, and thanks to everyone who was there. Bonita la gente!

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 04:34:29 AM EST
Ah, now I know where Manu Chao got this line from! Thanks, afew!

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon
by Barbara on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 04:51:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The mood of the song is better!!!!

I take the same part of the lyrics as afew.

The video is posted in the diary....

It captures my impression of the meeting (seeing froma broad)!!

And Jarabe de Palo is better than Manu Chao.. je jej ejejej :)

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 09:34:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think this meeting would be a very good case study comparing men's and women's social behaviour. We talked about it with Miguel on the way home: while the men related to and got to know each other via abstract concepts and discussion about outside events, women went straight to the core, asking questions about each other's life and wanting to learn about the person:

And sadly I know which side of the line I'm on - sulk !!

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 04:46:45 AM EST
Which one? I don't think one's really that much better than the other... :)


"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon
by Barbara on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 04:54:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ha !! I paid good money to be on the other side :-))

Just can't make it in my head, too much baggage.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 05:26:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am woman.. fair and square.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 05:20:31 AM EST
Damn. And here I was thinking you had a testosterone driven ploy to secure dates with the female contributors on ET...
by Nomad on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 07:27:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am woman when I first ask everything about the other person.

Other than thtat, the plot to date females at ET is still intact and going smoothly. Now thatneverybody think I am stupid I have to make them believe I am not that stupid.

From there on..everything will go smoothly...:)

Wait and see

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 06:20:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that sadly for me, Barbara was the person I got least chance to talk to. Ah well, maybe I can fix this at some future meet!
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 05:21:15 AM EST
You bet, Metatone! I do think we would have benefited from  playing musical chairs once an hour or so. But not all is lost! We're debating whether to go to Toulouse now, so , if the budget allows and you're there, we will fix it :).

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon
by Barbara on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 05:49:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem is we're moving house next weekend... The budget allows assuming you're willing to trade the requisite visit to IKEA for an ET meetup in Toulouse... </snark>

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 05:51:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We're debating whether to go to Toulouse now

Terrific! It's beautiful down there and it would be lovely to see you although I realise it's a bit soon after the 1st meet up.

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 10:11:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sadly there was that whole other-end-of-the-table thing going to on, glimpsed dimly past people's heads and through bottles.

I think there's a political consensus that there will have to be more swapping and mingling next time.

On the subject of which - London? Barcelona? Prague? (Wiltshire?)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 05:49:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm happy to go to a meeting anywhere, so long as it's not before July (not last weekend of). Tho August may be expensive travel-wise.

Praque is good (dons beer goggles, mmmmm).

I think London should have a local meet but I think it's unfair on our continental cousins.

Barcelona, now we're cooking with gas.

How about Berlin ? We might be able to attract the Scandanavian contingent.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 06:11:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think London should have a local meet but I think it's unfair on our continental cousins.

I wouldn't worry about that. I'd expect to see meet-ups in other parts of Europe as well.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 07:42:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You're right, we needed more musical chairs--and I was one of the guilty of sitting put, talking to the people nearby. I didn't see the time go by. Then you and Helen had to leave and I realized the afternoon was over... Duh! Hope we can catch up next time. ;)
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 07:41:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Me too...it was too easy to sit and relax in one spot...the chair was comfortable, the wine was flowing...oops, where did the time go???

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 07:45:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
J didn't have a chart listing table placings, with complex seat exchanges on the quarter hour, signalled by ritual sacrifices - L'Economiste Flambé

Geroff!

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 08:06:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Lil thinks everyone should have been made to introduce themselves...that would have forced interaction (or more of it...)

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 12:27:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey...tell Lilliana to set up a login and you can both post...looks like she's starting to get interested if she's telling you to comment for her!!

Helen, Barbara...we might have Lilliana on board sooner than she thinks!!

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde

by Sam on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 04:34:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"I'm with PeWi" also blogs, just not on ET...

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 05:29:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have to say there's another solution for those that travel. My one-on-one meetings with Nomad and then Oui when visiting Amsterdam covered a lot of ground.

It goes without saying that anyone visiting Finland should drop me a line. The Man from Lyons did just that and we had a super chatty lunch about OR - among many other subjects.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 08:00:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Liliana and I had a great time at the meet-up (we just got back late last night)...and she especially wants to thank Jerome and everyone she met at the meet-up...she felt very comfortable and very welcomed. An extra-special thanks to Jerome for organizing the event. Now she's wondering who all these nice ET people are! Maybe we will see her post sometime soon. And she was skeptical too, Barbara, and especially since Saturday was her birthday (!!), so I really needed to focus the rest of our long weekend on giving her attention and exploring Paris (no problem there!!)...it would have been nice to spend more time with folks, but one has to mind ones priorities, yes?

We had a GREAT time in Paris...though I had not prepared for the wind and all the spring pollen...and our legs are exhausted from all the walking we did. Now we want to go back!! We even had a conversation about renting an apartment for a month sometime, just to be there and  take in the atmosphere!

As far as the meetup for me...funny, I was mostly in a more quiet, reflective space...we sat in the middle of the table, and I pretty much soaked it all in, listening and enjoying. It was great to meet some many people I have read and exchanged conversations with over the last year... afew, dvx, priority, LEP and his awesome son Rafi (Who was very patient with us...and actually seemed to enjoy his teenaged self!), Metatone, Melanchthon, Fran, PeWi and his wonderful wife Merry (and Pewi thanks for the sound advice...). Unfortunately and regretfully, I didn't get to have a conversation with everyone, beyond hellos...there were just too many people!!...but hopefully we will have other chances in the future...here and elsewhere. (We did run into Colman and Sam on Ille St. Louis on Sunday morning, so had coffee together, which was very good since we hadn't had the opportunity to talk on Saturday). And it was fun to say hello to Izzy via phone too!!

Anyway...I was very full from the experience. I can't believe how many brilliant people are connected to our community!! I'm going to post some photos of our explorations of Paris too, in the coming days...
Cheers all!

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 06:53:02 AM EST
Thanks, Bob, I also had some additional ideas (for how to teach your granny sucking eggs). Are there any football players in Basle (you are in Basle, aren't you) from the country you want to work in? They don't need to be major celbreties, they still earn enough...
It also might be a way to get some celebrity exposure and possibily support, but then they might prefer to support charitites (another question I did not clarify, if you work for one.) Let yourself be invited to their embassy reception to get to know people that are in Switzerland, but still have close ties to their homecountries (since charitable giving is usually tax-exempt, business people sometimes like to get involved...)

But its hard work, that keeps you away from all the fun...

by PeWi on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 08:04:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey thanks!!!! I was coming to work today thinking..."I've got to get myself more organzed"...because i really DO have to figure out how to balance the required writing, with important networking, project development, AND fundraising. It is hard work, especially for a department of one...I'm feeling a little overwhelmed...I need an assistant! Your ideas about contacting local football players (I'm not in Basel..but they are one of the best teams in Switzerland, so contacting some players there..and elsewhere for that matter... has good logic!! And Embassy's & businessman/women from these countries too...wow, these are angles I hadn't considered...).

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 09:08:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"I need an assistant! " would there be a museums job in it as well?
by PeWi on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 09:39:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Which reminds me, I'm glad you had a great time Barbara. You['d shared your forebodings with me beforehand and was sincerely hoping that you'd find yourself dragged into the conversations.

It seems that you did to great effect and I'm pleased you had such a good time. The ones you don't expect are always the best.

Hope your house move goes well this weekend.

Helen

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 08:14:42 AM EST

This is Sven.

Yey - it seems to work...Now maybe I can paste anticharts


You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 08:25:49 AM EST
Bit of a serial killer look present in this one, Sven. ;)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 01:36:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I'm mad. "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 01:39:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Me and my oldest daughter with attitude

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 08:37:11 AM EST

 the "attitude" really comes through!

  Ouch!  ;^)

"In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge

by proximity1 on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 12:37:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oooh, I remember being that age.  You must be doing something impressive on the parenting end if she's agreed to have her picture taken with you. :)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
by p------- on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 12:43:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually she's not at all like she looks. Very open and social. We were pretending ;-)

But we do have the most interesting conversations. No subjects are taboo.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 01:43:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Glad you were pretending, me ducks.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 07:09:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm the Great Pretender"

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 09:20:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Name, address and telephone number please.
Ok stop it, no one react, it's only Spring.
I should have made it to the ET meetup, you would have all loved to hate me.
Fuck I'm smashed (just got home from the Banana Café, heavy gay scene, I got buddies with this supercool transvestite)
by Alex in Toulouse on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 10:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And don't you dare see a politically incorrect message in my comment.
by Alex in Toulouse on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 10:12:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Alex, drop me an email if you're still in Paris and willing to meet.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 05:53:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you Barbara for this report. I was stuck in bed with a very bad flu, in spite of which I had asked at least 3 friends to wake up call me, which did not work at all (one of them failed to wake up as well) so when I awoke it was already 1.00 pm and I felt it would not be a good idea to share my germs with you guys and especially with young children.
I do truly regret having missed the opportunity to meet "for real" the E-tribers I don't know.
By the way, Barbara, did you manage to talk Ingrid into posting like you or Sam do ? I would have tried had I been there...
And thank you Colman for the photo gallery !

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 09:55:59 AM EST
 Barbara,

  Think of yourself as a high-level diplomat or a head of state, flying off to distant or nearby parts for brief rendez-vous with others for "talks" and little or no chance to "enjoy" the place for its other interests.

  It was a pleasure meeting you and that guy you brought along.

  ;^)

  Prox

"In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge

by proximity1 on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 10:45:57 AM EST

 "socially anxious" ???

"In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge
by proximity1 on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 12:23:11 PM EST
She's too nice to say "socially inept" ;-)

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 12:25:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Quite by chance a moment ago, while reading Richard Wilkinson's The Impact of Inequality (book that I must have recommended to a number of people during the meet), I came across this, p.95 :

...social anxiety, sometimes called social evaluation anxiety. Work on social anxiety links our proneness to feeling shy, and our fear of social evaluation and embarrassment to a wider range of psychological concepts such as fear of negative evaluation, social-evaluative disorder, behavioral inhibition, fear of failure, approval motivation, self-conscious affect, interpersonal competence, self-presentational predicament, sense of inferiority, and inferiority complex, to name but... [wait for it...] a few.

I'm tired of having fingers pointed at me. Is this a case of social anxiety, Doc?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 07:06:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Someone asking my opinion?

Well anyway, here it is....don't we ALL have shyness once in awhile??? (Well, I know a few people who are damn good at covering it up, if they do have it...). I'd say shyness/social anxiety is a normal experience that everyone feels from time to time. It is only the poor souls who are extra sensitive who feel it more intensely, are overwhelmed by it and thus at times are more intensely restricted by it, that have a worse case of it. The rest of us "only" have to deal with it once in awhile...

that's probably too serious an answer though <drat>

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 08:47:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"(Well, I know a few people who are damn good at covering it up..."

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 09:26:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks, Sven. Someone notices these casual slurs, at least ;)
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 11:07:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A few of them, any road ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 11:47:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, I just thought that long list of complexes and disorders was amusingly explicative of what Barbara might have meant by "socially anxious" (she might just have meant "nerdy"). Especially with my nick at the end.

But yes, social anxiety is part of the human condition, and we all experience it more or less.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 11:31:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
 

 "while the men related to and got to know each other via abstract concepts and discussion about outside events, women went straight to the core, asking questions about each other's life and wanting to learn about the person: who are you? what do you do? do I share anything with you? what do you think of x y z? would I like you as a friend?"

  Reporters!  Sheesh!

  Where are you living?

  How did you two (Migueru and Barbara) meet?

  What's your son's name?

  How could anyone not adore a fifteen-month-old child ?

  Did you like living in California?

  those and other "women's" questions were posed to Barbara, Migueru, or Barbara AND Migeru by?

  proximity1 -- Woman that I am!

 

"In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge

by proximity1 on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 12:35:47 PM EST
Yes, proximity1, you are absolutely right and I was going to mention you, you were definitely on "the other side" in this aspect and I had lots of fun talking to you! I was talking about men's interaction, though, I didn't really mention so much the man-woman interaction... ;)

It is to say that me and Miguel have "spilled our guts" to you... but we haven't learned that much about you... :(. This will have to change, hopefully soon.


"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon

by Barbara on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 01:24:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just adding that Migeru indeed is a man, so I guess I was wrong, after all, and it's never a good idea to be making generalizations.

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon
by Barbara on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 01:25:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

 That's because, being wanted in twenty-seven countries, I've had to learn to be circumspect in what I say about moi, my dear---if I may call you "my dear".

 This way, when you are questioned--perhaps even tortured, you'll be able to honestly say, "Hell! I (We) don't know anything else!"

  ;^)

"In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge

by proximity1 on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 02:07:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
 As I recall, Britain has a fairly respectable assortment of "native" cheeses--of which the English are rightly proud. (English, as I am not aware of any Scottish, or Welsh cheeses --true?)

  (ducks head and runs for cover)

  ;^)

 Keep to the Stilton, 'cause, way!

"In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge

by proximity1 on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 12:46:35 PM EST
And if Neal's Yard dairy and it's supply of artisanal cheeses from Britain isn't good enough, then there's La Fromagerie just off Marylebone High St where she can get Reblonchon and camembert to her heart's content.

Or if she's feeling less posh she can get 'em from Sainsbury's like the rest of us.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 01:06:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think I have sampled a lot of British cheese already and I love it. But one can never have enough of good cheese, right?

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon
by Barbara on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 01:27:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Red Leicester, Sage Derbyshire and Stilton are all from my home territory in the Midlands. Great cheeses!

I've never really understood Finnish cheese - it is of the Gouda, Edam variety and quite bland. I would surmise that Dutch specialists came to start up the industry in the 19th century, just as our chocolate comes from Fazer (Swiss).

Funny - there was a quite integrated cross-culture Europe back in those days...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 01:51:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fazer, chocolate? you must be kidding, ever tasted real Belgian chocolate?  :)

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 02:05:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

 Ah, yes, now we're at war!

  ;^)

"In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge

by proximity1 on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 02:09:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You said war?

Just look at what is a lyonnais chocolate manufacturer

Or another French one!

Weapons of Mass Dégustation...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 03:45:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have, but these days I'm only allowed the 70% cocoa varieties. Fazer has a new one called 'Thin Dark' which suits me very nicely thank you.

Chocolate is not worth fighting over. ;-) You win

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 02:17:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

 "I've never really understood Finnish cheese -..."

  That's because you have never really listened to Finnish cheese.  Isn't it!?

"In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge

by proximity1 on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 02:11:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's a particular type of Finnish farmhouse cheese which has the texture of a silicon pancake and squeaks as you chew it. Is that what you meant?

Finnish cheeses are designed to be grated into wide thin pieces. I like my cheese either chunky or able to move about under its own steam.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 02:22:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

 On peut designer des fromages?!?!?

 ça alors!

"In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge

by proximity1 on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 02:42:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're clearly going full out for this week's PN award, while Nomad is out in the field...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 02:44:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

 What's a "PN" award? (Don't tell me if it's something you wouldn't want to receive for yourself!)

"In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge

by proximity1 on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 02:48:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suggest searching the archive for comments containing "pilkkunussija".

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 02:56:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am the proud holder of the rank of (I think) Knight Commander of the Order of the PN. So there.

There are designer everythings, so I'm sure there must be designer cheeses. If not, this is perhaps the moment to jump in and make some money.

(Some years ago, a clever not-quite-crook in France succeeded in marketing "vintage" foie gras to silly snobbish rich people. The idea was that there were good years and less good, and years with this flavour or that, in other words a whole apparatus of connoisseur know-how akin to knowledge of wines. It was all the rage for some years, and I seem to recall that even Président Mitterand fell for it. In fact, the foie gras was bought on the wholesale market from Poland and had nothing special about it at all. The "designer" was caught and that put an end to it.)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 03:49:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From a PN point of view, there is a difference between 'designer' and 'designed'. Designer as an adjective implies that some ponce has added a label and bumped up the price. Designed, on the other hand, means refined in some way in order to improve.

And indeed 'designing' as an adjective applied to a person implies selfish scheming. The Great Designer, of course, is god, who is more into shellfish scheming.

No doubt other PNers will be able to dissect these points ad nauseum which literally means totally sick of marketing.

BTW Afew is indeed a KC and entitled to be addressed as Me Duck, and to receive a large Melton Mowbray pork pie from the Crown each Easter under a statute from 1706.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 04:24:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As long as the pork pie doesn't date from 1706 (vintage?), and is accompanied by a nice piece of Stilton, His Duckship will graciously deign to accept the Crown's gift.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 04:35:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which reminds me, I must write a diary about the various psychedelic effects of different cheeses.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 03:31:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You absolutely should.  I'm on a life-long quest for the perfect cheeses and chocolates.  Or that is my excuse for surviving primarily off and spending insanes amounts of cash on them.

I await your cheese diary with, er, baited breath. </ducks & runs!>

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 04:00:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen, can you also dowse for cheese? (Or chocolate, for that matter?)

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon
by Barbara on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 04:15:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jonathan can certainly dowse for sweets.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 04:22:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Once I teach you how to dowse, you can try for yourself.

Tho' usually I find that going to the cheese counter is sufficient to find cheese.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 04:40:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Eau de Stilton has been commissioned by the SCMA as part of the STICK ON THE STILTON campaign for 2006, to encourage people to try eating Blue Stilton cheese as part of everyday meals - scattered on a pizza, sliced onto a burger or slipped into a sandwich.


We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
by Sam on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 04:49:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mmmm. Neal's Yard. Yum. $20-$32/lb (depending on cheese and store) - ouch. Not something for daily consumption.

BTW over the past decade the US has developed a really tasty artisanal cheese industry, unfortunately it's an expensive one.  But they're often better than the imports, especially as the government has been cracking down on raw milk cheese imports (used to be that the stores would stash some into their other imports and you could buy them under the counter 'psst, buddy, want some Vacherin Mont d'Or')

by MarekNYC on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 01:57:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yea, I've seen that in Whole Foods market. Neal's Yard stilton made me giggle.

Neal's Yard is a shop, not a manufacturer

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 04:46:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Neal's Yard is a shop, not a manufacturer

We are a small dairy near Dorstone, overlooking the Wye Valley, Herefordshire. We make fresh and mould-ripened cheeses. yoghurts and creme fraiche. I have owned and run the Creamery since 1990.

Originally we were the same company as Neal's Yard Dairy

Neal's Yard Creamery

I presume that's what's being sold here under the Neal's Yard label. In any case it is very good.

by MarekNYC on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 05:24:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well the cheese I saw in LA was called Neal's Yard Stilton. Stilton cannot come from Herefordshire. What I saw looked like a load of crumbs and offcuts of stilton from the shop all squashed together and re-badged for the USA. and I giggled when I saw it.

So it was easy for me to presume you were being sold something similar. Sorry

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 05:34:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I cannot believe this huuuge discussion on cheese!!! :)))
I think that next time that I will want to write something, I will just write a whole bunch of random words and see which ones get elaborated on the most.... LOL.

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon
by Barbara on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 07:29:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But where else would you have war declared over the design details of Finnish cheese ? And is a design ever finnished or merely abandoned ?

Maybe we should ask certain parties whose idea it was to get off at the wrong metro station so that we had to walk 50 miles through a raging hurricane in the first place ? One that suspiciously stopped when we arrived at the restaurant.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 08:51:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Okay, okay, I admit, it was me! But I really had no idea it was so damn far... you guys made it seem like it was "just around the corner"!

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon
by Barbara on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 09:51:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, if it hadn't been for the hurricane, it would have been a pleasant stroll of what...a kilometre ? Less ?

As it was it was a bit of a trial, especially for Johnny. We'll know next time.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 10:42:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You're allowed a bit of exaggerarion in writing ;) from time to time, otherwise it would be no fun.

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon
by Barbara on Wed May 24th, 2006 at 11:25:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Caerphilly (care-FILL-ee) is a Welch cheese from Dyfed.  Made from cow's milk it very rarely appears on the market.  

Characteristics: dry crust; ivory, dry(ish), and crumbly paste; creamy throughout; mild 'lemony' flavor.

A related cheese is T'yn Grug (Tin Greeg) is a grating cheese that is a sweet and earthy version of a good aged cheddar.

Llangloffan is a traditional unpasteurised full fat hard cheese.  It is rich, slightly dry, but very creamy in the mouth.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 08:49:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Did anyone ever find out who the mysterious "batwinged angel" was?

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
by p------- on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 12:49:06 PM EST

 Not that I heard.  Apparently, the Angel didn't show--or she kept her Batwings folded discreetly.

"In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge
by proximity1 on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 12:52:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know but I can't say.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 02:17:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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