Fri Jul 14th, 2006 at 02:49:05 PM EST
Yesterday "messy" posted a very weird redefinition of zionism in the thread about the current escalation by the IOF in Palestine and Lebanon. The thread is here:
In that thread, "messy" redefined zionism as "The idea that jews are human and should rule themselves".
Now, I have no problem with either of both premises, but I have a big problem with a) the statement as presented because that was a reframe of the ongoing discussion, and b) with zionism defined that way, because that is not what zionism is, as I'll illustrate below.
But lets start from the start as one should. The statement, apparently innocuous and completely logical (after all, who'd have anything to say against such innocent words ...) is a typical example of destructive rhetoric often used by manipulators to lead astray people who in discourse take contrary (to them) positions. the important thing to notice about this statement is the context. in yesterday's thread, nobody was alleging either that "jews are not human" nor that "jews should not rule themselves". the issue of that thread was a different one altogether. concisely said, the idea of a "reframe" is to derail a discussion about certain issues when it is clear that the outcome of that discussion can only be against the interests of the reframer / manipulator / troll.
destructive rhetoric as above has been used for a long time by the zionist propagandists to squelch any discussion of the murderous and criminal practices of israel against the Palestinians (hint: if anybody calls you an "anti-semite" for criticizing israel, that is manipulation). I will (hopefully) come back to the issue of reframing and other destructive rhetoric techniques, but now I am interested more in the subject of "Zionism".
Zionism is IMO, after all i've seen and read on the subject, pretty much a run-of-the-mill variant of fascism, the usual a blood (theirs) and country (theirs but we'll take it for us) ideology so appealing to psychopaths and other depraved characters. It is, if you will, the jewish version of National Socialism (the german variant). Zionism is a political ideology which mounts itself parasitically on judaism, promoting the usual themes of extreme racism ("arabs are two-legged crocodiles"), "us against them" ("we'll crush them like drugged cocroaches"), terra nullius ("a land without people for a people without land") and somehow justifying its murderous rampages with obscure, pseudo-religious references to the torah ("jahweh gave us all lands between nile and euphrates"). If it was not for the publicistic genius of the mostly jewish/zionist-controlled media worldwide, zionists would inhabit mainly institutions for the criminally insane, and zionism would firmly be where it belongs, in the crap bin of history together with nazism, stalinism and other shits-for-brains psycho ideologies.
Because a discussion of Zionism should not only depend on my opinion, I propose you go and read the large compilation of facts and quotes about Zionism which somebody has put together who has taken far more time than me to inform himself about the issue, here: http://www.serendipity.li/zionism.htm
I quote some of the statements of that page:
Zionism represents itself as a political movement concerned principally with the establishment of a state in Palestine to be controlled by and for Jews. It began in the late 19th Century and attained its stated objective with the creation in 1948 of the state of Israel by the United Nations ...
In its current form Zionism seeks to dominate all of Palestine and the Middle East by means of violence and the threat of violence ... and to maximize its influence in world affairs and in world history, principally by means of control of the government of the USA ... at the expense of the social wellbeing not only of the Palestinians but of the peoples of all lands.
Zionists claim that Jews have the right to possess all land between the Nile and the Euphrates because (they say) this land was given to them by some entity they call "YHWH" as claimed in the Old Testament (Genesis 15:18) ...
Zionism is ... racist, it is nationalist, and it is Biblically inspired (rather than spiritually inspired). Being a fundamentalist movement, Zionism is not categorically different from Nazism. Only when we understand Zionism in its nationalist and racist context will we begin to comprehend the depth of its atrocities. -- Gilad Atzmon
A principal component of Zionism is racism, in the form of the belief held by Zionists that Jews constitute a race (or ethnic group or however they see themselves) superior to all others, and in particular to those, the Palestinians, who lived on the land that the Zionists stole from them in 1948 ... and subsequently.
Zionism rejects the idea of a modern secular state, based on equality of all citizens. Zionism predicates a state where Jews have privileged rights. Thus, according to Israeli law, a person born in London, who has never visited Israel, does not speak Hebrew and professes atheism, is granted automatic Israeli citizenship, if he can produce proof from a rabbi that his mother was considered a Jew, while indigenous Palestinian inhabitants who were born to Christian or Muslim parents are at best tolerated but never considered as full fledged partners in Israeli society. Racial discrimination, as defined in international law, is thus not only reflected in Israeli laws and policies, but is grounded in the very nature of Israel as a Jewish state, in public perception and in the Zionist credo.
And these two will interest the american readers:
The total [transferred from U.S. taxpayers to Israel] for the past five years (1993-1997) was around $6,300,000,000/year ($6.3 BILLION) or over $17 Million/DAY.
The current situation in the United States is the result of an awesome deployment of Jewish power and influence. One must contemplate the fact that American Jews have managed to maintain unquestioned support for Israel over the last thirty-five years despite Israel's seizing land and engaging in a brutal occupation of the Palestinians in the occupied territories -- an occupation that will most likely end with expulsion or complete subjugation, degradation, and apartheid. During this same period Jewish organizations in America have been a principal force -- in my view the main force -- for erecting a state dedicated to suppressing ethnic identification among Europeans, for encouraging massive multi-ethnic immigration into the U.S., and for erecting a legal system and cultural ideology that is obsessively sensitive to the complaints and interests of ethnic minorities: the culture of the Holocaust.
Now, to illustrate what Zionism is in practice, here are some quotes from famous zionists, for your reading pleasure. The quotes are taken from here: http://www.monabaker.com/quotes.htm
David Ben-Gurion sez:
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
Golda Meir sez:
"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."
"This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy."
Menachem Begin sez:
"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."
Yitzhak Shamir sez:
"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
As I see things, we in Europe don't condone many of the things and attitudes which are totally normal to the average zionist, like bashing heads against walls and boulders, racial segregation, daily crimes against humanity, poisoning wells, killing children (in fact, anybody) for no good reason, destroying houses, bombing civilians, death squads, torture, political imprisonment, desparecidos, ...
because of all this, the million-dollar question is not if zionism is a disgusting and criminally racist ideology (it is), the question to ask is, why are we (Europe) still supporting a blatantly criminal state which shares no civic, moral, political values with us ? What ever does Israel have to do with us anyway ? We owe them nothing, we dont need them, we have no influence on their actions whatsoever, we share no values with them (ok, except our tax money), keeping their company just makes us look bad. Israel is, in resume, a political tar-baby we should dispose of yesterday rather than tomorrow. This should be widely discussed and acted upon by the politicasters of Europe at all levels. And that would be the theme for a follow-up thread.
FYI: TROLLS WILL BE TROLL-RATED.