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Democratic Debate Open Thread

by pelcan Sun Jun 3rd, 2007 at 08:58:26 PM EST

In my first non-revolutionary literature-titled diary, I'd like to focus on the CNN New Hampshire Democratic debate. I'm not a fan of debates, even in the Kerry-Bush race, which I paid a lot of attension on, I skipped watching them. In the Sego-Sarko race, perhaps the one I was most passionate about, I didn't bother to watch the english version of the debate (at least Sgo employed a lot of English female translators). But I finally decided to watch the 2nd of (I belieive it's) 7 democratic primary debates (do they really need so many? Why does the party lack the comon sense of canceling the Fox CDC debate where the only 3 last place challengers are showing up?).

     Richardson came across more favorably and answered the questioneds smartly (Bill could be Middle-East ambassador), Edwards was smart in wearing a livestrong bracelet, Dodd was amazingly brilliant but nothing too new to me, and Hillary continues to look programmed, just like how she acted at her web annoucement (must be too much consultants) and laughed mechanically a few times when they mention Bill.
     Everyone attacked Obama. Edwards argued with him at the break. Crazy Gravel blindly attacked him for knowing about what happened at Walter Reed ahead of time and no asking for investigations and more money for veterans (which turned out to be false). When asked what he would do about high gas prices affecting the average American, he said he would do nothing (pause) to lower the price of gas and that we should get used to it. At first I thought he had the courage that the presidential contenders (namely, Romney) to state a hard truth, but as it turns out this was not the case and he didn't even present a solution.
     So far the debates have not been kind to Mr. Obama, who suffers from over-expectations. I think he did not do pretty well, although he answered the questions clearly and quite masterfully. Yes, I support Obama, but unlike the Kossacks who began flatly promouncing victory for their candidate I'm going to have to say the winners, in my opinion, were Richardson and Edwards, Hillary declined slightly, Obama lost out, Gravel looks like a FOX tool that basically says Dems are crazy, Dodd can try but will get nowhere, and Biden and Kucinich should sit this race out if they can't get above 1% in the polls. But don't let me do all the talking, comment on what you feel on this primary and the debates if you watched it.

If you can or will vote in the Dem primary, who will it be? Us users please anwer where it says (US)
. Hillary (US) 0%
. Obama (US) 10%
. Edwards (US) 10%
. Richardson (US) 0%
. others (US) 0%
. unsatisfied with all (US) 10%
. Hillary (other countries) 0%
. Obama (other countries) 5%
. Edwards (other countries) 26%
. Richardson (other countries) 15%
. others (other countries) 15%
. unsatisfied with all (other countries) 5%

Votes: 19
Results | Other Polls
FWIW, my choice is: Edwards for President, Obama for Vice President, Richardson for Secretary of State.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 at 05:15:46 AM EST
Same for me. If Gore gets in, Gore/Edwards or Gore/Obama.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 at 07:26:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You can watch the debate here (CNN). (Somehow I don't get audio output, anyone knows another URL where you can watch it?)

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 at 05:57:18 AM EST
Appreciate your post. I checked over at Dkos, myDD, and FDL, and what bugs me there is that people post to promote their candidate, rather than really talk about things objectively. Interestingly, each blog has its favorite.

Anyway, I like Edwards for now, but will defintely go Gore if he opts in (and really hopes he does)

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 at 05:58:47 AM EST
So, which blog prefers whom?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 at 06:03:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I may have misspoke...to be more precise, the preferences/observations of who won were those stated in comments...but the trends were: Dkos = Edwards, MyDD = Obama, and (very surprisingly) FDL = Hilary (!!)

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 at 08:04:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't see the debate and probably won't bother with this one (I diarised the last one).

The one I saw was instructive in terms of understanding the dynamics, but in terms of understanding the politics of the candidates, the system is a joke.

Edwards has the solutions I want to hear for an incoming President but I'm a euro, so my opinion is without weight.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 at 09:19:52 AM EST
I sat through about half of the first debate, then I gave up. Not a very good format at all. The only highlight was Gravel speaking his mind. I don't think I'll bother watching any more of the debates while we're still so far away from primary season.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 at 09:30:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Did I understand properly, there was only one debate in NH or many?

You say Obama suffered most in these debates but others saw him a clear winner. Newspapers and TV channels all give different verdict.

It's bewildering, isn't it.

by FarEasterner on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 at 10:39:13 AM EST
No, there will be different debates in different states with different sponsors, for instance, CBS, ABC, and NBC will be hosting at least one for each side.
by pelcan on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 at 06:07:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The roundup on TPMCafe is worth reading. Especially for the graph of the Dodd campaign.

P.S. Biden is really, really, really dumb.

Joe Biden took a stand on the Darfur issue: "By the time all these guys talk, 50,000 more people are going to be dead. They're going to be dead. And I tell you, I guarantee you, we have the capacity by setting up a no-fly zone to shut down the Janjaweed. That's our moral authority. Exercise it."

The mighty Janjaweed airforce!

If he were a serious candidate, I'd guess you could really run with this. But from what I've read here and elsewhere, it seems like it's a gaffe a day with Biden anyway.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 at 04:21:20 PM EST
It has been claimed before on this blog that one of the problems the AU mission faces is the lack of air cover, and that the Sudanese government does provide some air support to the Janjaweed. In addition, not only Senator Biden has advocated a US Senate resolution asking for the establishment of a no-fly zone before, but also Britain at the UNSC had included a no-fly zone among the proposed sanctions to be imposed on Sudan. If you know sources refuting the allegation that the Sudanese air force is acting in this way, I'd like to see them. See also here.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 at 06:21:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I must say: I don't know what y'all see in Richardson.  The man, to me, comes across as a bumbling idiot.  He's the only candidate whose performance has declined since the first debate.  His attempts at soundbites were truly lame.  He clearly either (1) has no plans, or (2) doesn't know what his own plans involve -- instead choosing to speak to abstract horseshit.  "We need to fix our immigration system, (blah blah blah)."  No fucking shit, Bill.  So how are you going to, you know, actually do it?

For a guy with such a long resume, Richardson has been laughable in this race.  His claim to be able to do all that he promises without raising taxes is also a joke.  That's a sure sign of a politician who's either living in a fantasyland or is lying to the voters' faces.  And, if ever there were a time to reject politicians of that sort, it's the post-Bush era.

Also, people keep saying that Biden is long-winded, but excuse me: It's Richardson who can't seem to actually make his point in less than twenty minutes.

Edwards is great on actual plans.  Excellent.  On that, he is the top candidate, in terms of detail.  He has, however, not offered any evidence that he can actually pay for it all, so far as I'm aware.  He's commiting the same foul as Richardson, albeit to a lesser degree.  It also, honestly, took seriously balls on his part to take a shot at Obama over leadership on the war -- this being the guy who supported it, attacking the guy who got it right the first time.  As Obama rightly pointed out, Edwards was about four and a half years late on that.

The three winners I saw were Biden (again), Obama, and (surprisingly) Hillary.  All spoke intelligently to the issues.  Dodd was quite good, but he never gets enough time to talk.

The exception was Iran, on which the answers were largely boring until Edwards got his turn and was able to shine.  But I was looking for nuance and detail, and, on those, both Edwards and Richardson failed miserably, on the whole.

Sidenote: I like Mike Gravel.  He's wonderful, but he does himself a disservice, behaving more like someone who's just escaped a hospital for the mentally unstable than a potential president.  Similarly, I like Kucinich, but the man looks like a sixty-year-old cross between Pee Wee Herman and one of Santa's elves.  The Mickey Mouse voice doesn't scream "Presidential!" to me either.  (And, yes, that's horribly shallow, but let's at least be honest: Jerome will be the head of Exxon before Dennis Kucinish wins the presidency.)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 at 04:32:44 PM EST
Thanks for your input. I will continue to cover American politics, hopefully with less typos next time.
by pelcan on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 at 06:05:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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