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Film Review: Sir! No Sir! (on DVD)

by DeAnander Sun Aug 26th, 2007 at 04:45:45 AM EST

[This is a crosspost from Feral Scholar.]

What do you think of when you hear the words "Viet Nam AntiWar Movement" or "AntiWar Movement of the Sixties"?
The odds are that you think of a peaceful, colourful, noisy demonstration of hippies and college kids confronting the uniformed forces of State power -- peace signs and tie-dye, protesters placing flowers into the barrels of police guns;  of students being tear gassed and shot at Kent State;  of folk music, Woodstock, the ubiquitous peace-sign symbol on jewelry and posters;  of pretty long-haired girls and boys playing guitars and calling US soldiers "baby killers";  of Jane Fonda, still vilified on bumperstickers throughout the Red States, making her famous trip to North Viet Nam;  and perhaps the durable image of a "hippie chick" spitting on a returning veteran at an airport, and bitter Viet Nam vets loathing "those goddamn hippies" and "commie-huggers".  

In other words, you'll most likely think of a movement of young people in civilian society -- students and draft resisters -- mostly on college campuses, mostly white middle/upper class kids, in direct and hostile opposition to the armed forces as well as the government.

What you most likely won't think of -- unless you remember it personally -- is the veterans' and soldiers' anti-war movement.  You won't think of the song "Soldier We Love You," and you won't remember that the FTA Show in which Jane Fonda starred draw cheering crowds of US soldiers throughout its tour of Pacific Asia.  You won't remember soldiers in Viet Nam wearing peace signs in place of their dog tags, or going to jail for refusing combat duty.  You probably won't remember radical Black soldiers making a direct connection between US policy in Viet Nam and US policy in the inner cities.  Memory of the pivotal social moment of the Sixties has been selectively edited (especially through the sugar-coated amnesia pills cranked out by the Hollywood vending machine).  The soldiers' and veterans' antiwar movement has been erased from the public's memory.

This is why David Zeiger decided he had to make a documentary about the antiwar movement that we've been taught to forget:  the antiwar movement that organised itself in barracks, on aircraft carriers, in country, at listening posts, in the line for mess hall.  His film is called Sir! No Sir! and in this viewer's opinion it's one of the best documentaries of recent years.

From the diaries ~ whataboutbob

One of the strengths of Zeiger's film is that it doesn't start by systematically deconstructing a catalogue of lies about the Viet Nam War resistance movement (though there are so many, and such ripe targets for debunking).  This is not a defensive or reactive documentary.  Instead, it starts by telling the story from the beginning, in eyewitness testimony drawn from hours of interviews with a core group of war resisters from inside the US military.  Debunking urban legends like the "spitting hippie chick" is saved for the second half, and is an easier task after we've had a guided tour of the situation and heard the stories for ourselves.  The object of the first half is to take us back in time, to make the Viet Nam War era real to us, to help us place ourselves in the shoes of the young people who were caught up in the draft and the resistance -- to meet them as they were then, and as they are now, looking back.  The montage of interview voice-overs, still photos, and video clips works exceptionally well to take us back in time.

The film opens with an audio excerpt from Radio First-Termer, one of the underground GI radio stations that operated in Viet Nam;  against its selfconsciously rebellious voiceover we see footage from a US aerial attack force, napalm explosions and clouds of smoke in the wake of the planes, devastation sown across the beautiful countryside.  Cue up "Soldier Boy," a girl-group classic from the early Sixties.  Then the interviewees start to talk, looking back on how they joined the armed forces, what they believed, how they felt at the time, what it was like to come from military families, from a long tradition of soldiering and patriotism, and still find themselves in such doubt about what they were doing... "And we came to the conclusion... Let's hope we're doing the right thing, 'cause that's where we're going."  "I was really proud of what I thought I was doing.  The problem I had was realising that what I was doing was not good."  Donald Duncan, Robert Levy, one after the other they explain how they came to a moment when conscience forced them to rebel against military authority.

The people being interviewed are some of the first US military personnel to 'blow the whistle' and face disciplinary action for refusing to carry out their assigned duties as part of the Viet Nam war effort.  The film recounts the jail sentences handed out after courts martial for the early resisters;  soldiers who refused to go, a doctor who refused to provide training to US soldiers, a decorated Ranger who refused to return and resigned from the service, Black soldiers convicted for holding meetings to discuss the racial politics of the war.  "A majority of men that I met in the service were opposed [to the war]..."

The Tet Offensive in 1968 revealed that "victory" was nowhere near;  the GI peace movement gained momentum as the gap between official government lies and the reality on the gound became more and more obvious and painful.  At about this time, nine young men in San Francisco went AWOL (July 1968) taking refuge in a church and refusing to go to Viet Nam.  They chained themselves to ministers, but eventually the military arrived with bolt cutters, separated them from their clerical protectors and confined them in the Presidio.  The "Nine for Peace" reminisce about their jail time;  meanwhile in the outside world, veterans and conscripts were organising the first Viet Nam Veterans peace march.  In a stroke of genius, the activists drop antiwar leaflets from a small private plane onto military bases in California -- imitating the propaganda methods of the Americans in Viet Nam who were dumping leaflets on the "enemy".

And all of this happens in the first few minutes of the film!  It has the appeal of a gripping thriller, without having to fictionalise or dramatise its material.  Even in writing this review it seems easier and more appropriate to let the subjects speak for themselves;  their voices tell the story -- and their faces, which you'll have to see the movie to appreciate.

The film continues to weave together contemporary television news coverage and archival footage with audio and video of interviews with the survivors, who discuss the fear and overreaction of the authorities.  "I kinda came in as an AWOL and within 2 days of hitting the stockade, ya know, I was facing the death sentence -- for singing We Shall Overcome."

Those who saw combat recall confusion and the failure of meaning... "And the sergeant said, here's this gook you killed, you did a good job.  And I seen this guy and he was about my age, and... and I started thinking, ya know, why is he dead and I'm alive, it's just a matter of pure luck.  And I started thinking, I wonder if he had a girlfriend and how his mother's gonna find out and things like that.  And when you've been through an experience of that nature and you find out that it's all lies and they're just lying to the American people, and your silence means that you're part of keeping that lie going... I couldn't stop, I mean I couldn't be silent, I had a responsibility to my friends and to the country in general.  And to the Vietnamese.  The last guy that I shot, I don't consider he was the first guy I shot, but he was the first guy I shot where I was shooting it out barrel-to-barrel with him and looked him in the face afterwards, and I felt a certain amount of responsibility to him.  To make it that his life -- his death -- not be in vain, meant that I had to try and advocate for the justness that he was fighting for.  And I believe that he was fighting for his country.  So I became involved in the Movement, that's what happened with me."

The film recalls the establishment of the GI coffeehouses, organised by civilian anti-war activists in support of anti-war soldiers.  They offered live music, radical newspapers, community, sympathy, poetry, and the presence of returned GIs who warned raw recruits about what they could expect in country.  The coffeehouses predictably came under attack:  some were legally harasssed, some were trashed, some were burnt out by either pro-war local yahoos or government agents.

By 1969/70 there were GI activist groups all over the military;  and the military leadership started to panic.  Coffeehouses and GI organisers were persecuted by any legal means possible.  "One whole wall was an American flag painted upside down -- the stars part of it was a toilet seat.  And if you lifted the toilet seat up, there was Lyndon Johnson's picture.  And when the police officer who came in to examine the place saw that, he just hit the roof... I spent 13 days in this little jail that still had a trapdoor from when they did lynchings, from before the Civil War, there was a hook up on the wall... but we weren't going away."

"But in defending those centres [coffeehouses] to exist, it pulled us off the base, which was where we were effective and powerful.  Put us in a coffeehouse and we were just like another bunch of young people in a coffeehouse.  But put us in a barracks with a stack of papers around us, and we were f---ing Atlas."  And thus began the underground newspaper phenomenon:  subversive zines duplicated either outside or inside the military base, for a soldier audience.  "What I liked about it was that officers hated it.  That had to be good."  The zines multiplied faster than the military could suppress them.  "If you were caught distributing literature on base, that was a court-martial offence."  "There must have been close to 300 anti-war newspapers written, produced and published on bases all throughout the world.  It was wherever there were GIs, American GIs in the world."  A lightning montage of the zine covers makes it very clear how raw and angry was the satire, how sharp the political consciousness of the writers.

The film makes its inevitable visit with Jane Fonda, making it clear that the GI press and the GI movement existed first -- the soldiers themselves invented the "FTA" tag line well before Michael Alaimo and Jane Fonda did their comedy skits in what became the FTA Show, the anti-war answer to Bob Hope's travelling vaudeville.  Fonda:  "We are coming in response to what is probably the most powerful movement going on in this country -- the movement of the men inside the military, and women, who are beginning to understand how they are being used and what the nature of American foreign policy is.  And we come there because they have asked us to..."  The footage of uniformed GIs cheering and applauding as the FTA Show players mock the government, the war, and the army, is surprising to anyone who has (and haven't most of us?) accepted the revised version of the history of those years:  the anti-war movement was not some civilian phenomenon hostile to and separate from the US troops.  The heart of the movement was the GI resistance.  The civilian antiwar movement was largely in support of the GI refuseniks.

Another element of the antiwar movement that has been officially forgotten was the role of Black troops who consciously connected the genocidal tactics used against the Vietnamese with the repression and paramilitary police occupation of Black neighbourhoods back home.  "I seen Charlie, Luke the Gook, whatever you wan' call him, NVA, right there layin down, as I walk by;  I look at him, he looks at me, and I'm goin about my business, this man ain't doin me nothin, he ain't hurtin me in no type of way, he ain't hurtin none of my Black people, none of my families, so why should I shoot him?"  "The only place a Black man should fight is where he is being oppressed.  And I'm not being oppressed in Japan, I'm not being oppressed in Viet Nam, I'm not being oppressed in Pakistan."  "I remember one day the first sergeant was talking about Gooks.  Show you how naive I was, I didn't know that Gook was a racial slur.  I didn't really understand that, yeah.  And I remember one day he was talking about Gooks and a light went off in my head and I said Wow, a Gook is the same thing as a Nigger."  The military responded with heavy handed repression, jailing Black soldiers merely for doing "the dap," a complex handshake exchanged to express solidarity and Black resistance.  The stockades in Viet Nam filled up with Black GIs.

"There's always something that reminds you of the things that you've done in Viet Nam, the things that you've seen.  I seen what I saw, what was going on in the States.  Dudes are running down the streets wearing the same kind of uniform that I got.  They're in Memphis.  They're beating up on people -- wait a minute.  We're over here beatin up on people over here, and you're beatin up on Black people, dogs are running everywhere, tanks are on the streets..."  In 1968, uniformed soldiery were used against US citizens on US soil.  "We just got back from fighting the North Vietnamese and now they want us to fight the Americans."

The police riot at the Democratic Convention was not augmented by troops, though a contingent was sent and held in reserve;  "They had to keep them off the streets:  it was no longer certain which side the GIs were on."

Also in 1968, in the Spring, the My Lai massacre took place.  For over a year the US military pretended that only "enemy soldiers" were killed, but the news got out.  It was whispered from recruit to recruit in line for mess hall at the training bases, and even civilians became aware;  the scandal raised a stink around the world.  The Winter Soldier Investigation was instigated by troops, to show that My Lai and events like it were not "an isolated instance of aberrant behaviour" but fully conformant with US policy;  VVAW was founded.  "Why are they going after Calley, when Calley was doing precisely what we were all told to do when we were in Viet Nam, essentially:  which was Kill them All, and Sort it Out Later."  No one over the rank of Lieutenant was prosecuted for the My Lai massacre [sound familiar?].  During the Winter Soldier hearings, GIs testified to the brutalising tactics of basic training and the brutality that they witnessed and/or committed in country.  "And I went and listened to the three days of testimony and came away emotionally drained and floored by it.  I never grasped, even up to that point, how powerful was the genocidal plans and strategy of the US towards the Vietnamese people -- on every level, whether it was Agent Orange or Dow Chemical reconfiguring the napalm, 'cause the napalm wasn't sticking to the Vietnamese skin enough..."

In response to the growing failure in Viet Nam, Nixon invaded Cambodia [sound familiar?].  The National Guard at Kent State opened fire on protesters with lethal ammo and killed four students.  And the soldiers marched and demonstrated along with civilians outside military bases, those at Fort Hood declaring "Armed Farces Day" in mockery of Armed Forces Day.  More seriously, morale was collapsing in country, with drug use, desertion, mutiny and fragging on the rise.  Nixon announced "Vietnamisation" [substituting locals for US troops -- sound familiar?] combined with an aggressive air bombardment campaign [sound familiar?].  US troops were no longer officially in combat;  but in practise, small units were stranded on the border between Viet Nam and Cambodia, facing orders to go out on reconnaissance and night ambush in the face of vastly superior force.  Some units refused to go;  one unit wrote a petition which they smuggled back to "the outside world":  "In the event of mass prosecution of our unit, our only hope would be public opinion."  US troops started refusing to fight.  "I've seen more than one big group meeting where actually all they talk about is fragging, as we call 'em, pigs."  "By pigs you're talking about your senior enlisted men and your officers?"  "That's correct, that's one of our most common terms."  Unsurprisingly, Black antiwar soldiers were made scapegoats for these violent rebellions.  The film-maker goes in some detail into the tragic case of Billy Dean Smith, scapegoated and jailed for a fragging that he almost certainly did not commit.

"Many of us are very convinced that Nixon had to go to an air war because he couldn't trust us on the ground.   And for good reason.  We were shooting his officers and refusing direct orders to go in to combat."

We meet a team of listeners who monitored North Vietnamese radio frequencies to estimate the damage wrought by US air strikes;  by eavesdropping on emergency services and military units, the listeners would produce "Bomb Damage Assessments" which would be processed into executive reports for the Joint Chiefs and the White House.  "One of the things about me, that changed my mind, was that I knew what was happening in country was not what was being told to the people of the United States."  "The bombing of populated areas, civilian areas, the bombing of hospitals, things that the US denied over and over and over again that we were engaged in, those are things that we were engaged in, and we had access to that information, and the lies were so stark, you know, it challenged your own dignity, it challenged your loyalty, it challenged your humanity..."  "If we did our job right, we would save the lives of Americans.  If we did our jobs right it would cost the lives of tens of thousands of Vietnamese... we had to do something... we were going to do as much as we could in this last year of our service, to end the war in Viet Nam."

"So we were burning our commander in effigy, and I looked up and there was a large group of people on the perimeter that had circled us, and it was the Security Police.  And they were starting to close in on us.  And they had dogs.  And once they got close enough to figure out what we were doing... they joined us."

In response to the air war launched from carriers, a group of Navy officers organised to prevent their carrier (Constitution) from leaving San Diego.  "It's part of the air power that we use to attack peasants.  It's the weapon of a bully.  It's a weapon of aggression."  In search of an action to protest the deployment of Constitution to SE Asia, activist officers thought of holding an election on the ship to ask the crew whether they want to be deployed;  then the project grew, with tables outside supermarkets, surveying the general public in San Diego and trying to take an informal vote on whether "Connie" should stay home.  The project got high visibility;  authorities responded with "tough talk" statements about malcontents who would of course be disregarded.

Then Kissinger and Nixon decided to "bomb Viet Nam back to the Stone Age" as a farewell message before the Americans left.  "I think everybody that was involved in our operations was faced with the stark reality of participating in something which bordered on what we considered to be criminal, genocidal, unprecedented.  So we felt very much in solidarity with other GIs who were refusing to participate, particularly people refusing to fly B52s over the North.  People stopped producing the intelligence product that we were supposed to be producing..."  "The Air Force was no longer a reliable instrument for carrying out the war."

The Viet Nam war ended on April 30th 1975 -- partly due to the courageous and determined efforts of the GI anti-war movement.  And the rewriting of history started right away.

The power of this rewriting is emphasised in a wonderful interview with Jerry Lembcke, author of The Spitting Image, an investigation of the urban legend of the "spat-upon US Veteran" returning from Viet Nam.  He could not find any documentary evidence that any such incident ever took place, and deconstructs various forms of the urban legend with wry humour.  "If you went back and looked at the front pages of newspapers in 1969, 1970, what were you gonna see on the front pages of newspapers about Viet Nam vets?  They're in the streets.  They're political activists.  They're on the Capitol Mall.  They're giving the Nixon Administration fits.  This stuff was in living rooms all over America.  So people knew this, and this is an important piece we're talking about, how memory about the war has been re-written, has been reconstructed.  This is gone.  This has been erased.  This had been displaced."

The purpose of this documentary is to remember what has been erased.  It closes with the beautiful young Rita Martinson singing the classic anti war song "Soldier We Love You":

I read that you took a stand
and refused to kill in Viet Nam
you said no man was your enemy
if what he's fighting for is to be free

soldier we love you
yeah soldier we love you
standing strong 'cause it's hard to do
what you know you must do, cause you know that it's true
yes it's true

they'll lock you up in their stockade
yeah they'll lock you up 'cause they're afraid...

"They tried to turn me into a killer.  They tried to turn me into someone who could take another life.  If there's one thing that I've accomplished, it's that I didn't allow that to happen."

The film is dedicated to the memory of two antiwar GIs who died from Agent Orange poisoning -- which the US government denied and covered up for as long as it possibly could [sound familiar?].

"Sir No Sir" is a haunting documentary.  It reminds us how easily and convincingly history can be rewritten in the space of a generation.  And it presses us to ask, where is the antiwar movement of our day?  The lies are just as "stark" as they were in '68-'75: they challenge our own dignity, our own humanity just as they did then.  When will human conscience rebel?  Will the US troops now in Iraq ever come to question their mission and their purpose there?  Will there come a day when the Bush White House, or the Clinton or Obama White House, will find that it cannot trust its grunts on the ground, and its Air Force is no longer a reliable instrument for carrying out genocidal policy in the name of realpolitik?  And what can we do, to hasten that day?  In a sense, 'Sir No Sir' answers questions that we've been taught not to ask;  but it also asks questions for which we don't have answers.

Maybe we should try to catch the NOW show on deserters and refuseniks (Airdate: Friday, August 24, 2007 at 8:30 p.m. EDT on PBS):

On Friday, August 24, we talk to two soldiers who went AWOL and eventually left the Army, but who took very different paths. NOW captures the moment when one man turns himself in, and when another applies for refugee status in Canada, becoming one of the 20,000 soldiers who have deserted the Army since the war in Iraq began. Each describes what drove him to follow his conscience over his call to duty, and what penalties and criticism were endured as a result.

"I see things differently, having lived through the experience," former Army medic Agustin Aguayo tells NOW. "When I returned from Iraq, after much reflection I knew deep within me I could never go back."

(This Friday Film Review was published early so that interested readers could check out the NOW show.)

History may not repeat itself, but perhaps it really does rhyme.

[Note:  the DVD release contains many, many minutes of additional interview footage, all of it well worth watching and quoting.  But I had to stop somewhere.  This is one DVD worth owning. --DeA]

Did you know about the GI resistance?
. (Yawn) yeah yeah, when are you gonna tell us something new? 15%
. I had sorta heard of it but had no idea it was so extensive 55%
. Didn't realise there was one, but not surprised 10%
. I had no idea -- this really contradicts my concept of the Sixties 10%
. Are you kidding? I was part of it! 10%

Votes: 20
Results | Other Polls
by Nonpartisan on Wed Aug 22nd, 2007 at 11:44:56 PM EST
you mean no one has reviewed Sir No Sir yet for PH?  I'm astonished.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...
by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 01:11:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you.

The too-rarely used version of "My country right or wrong":"When wrong, to be put right."

by Number 6 on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 04:58:37 AM EST
I am intimately aware of most aspects of the Vn anti-war movement, but I was not part of it. No place for me to vote, but a great review of a film that I suppose may be an attempt to connect the current situation with that of the past.

After all these years I continue to have mixed feelings about anti-war movements that blossom during the midst of a conflict even though I also have problems with the wars themselves. In the case of the Vietnam War, I see the movement as instrumental, though not totally responsible, for the US withdrawal.  Ironically, I also strongly believe that it was also partially responsible for the war's longevity and sometimes worry that the current movement may also be contributing on some level, albeit to a lesser extent, to the continuance of the war in Iraq.  At the same time, anti-war movements, even if late in coming to maturity and even if they do contribute to some degree to a war's longevity, do serve notice to a population that has become too lax in exercising its civic duties and to a President that takes the powers of his position for granted.


I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 01:26:07 PM EST
I also strongly believe that it was also partially responsible for the war's longevity and sometimes worry that the current movement may also be contributing on some level

I understand the psychology, but that's rather a catch-22, isn't it? An individual who tries to be politically responsible is encouraging the bastards just as much as the apathetic and the enablers?

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt št gmail dotcom) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 02:36:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but that's rather a catch-22, isn't it?

Indeed it is, and the more I look at many of the decisions we are asked to make, the more I come to that conclusion.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 04:05:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Number 6 on Tue Aug 28th, 2007 at 05:32:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

After all these years I continue to have mixed [confused? :-)] feelings about anti-war movements that blossom during the midst of a conflict even though I also have problems with the wars themselves. In the case of the Vietnam War, I see the movement as instrumental, though not totally responsible, for the US withdrawal.

The key decision makers were the corporate elite who decided the war was too costly and unnecessary:

Chomsky: Well, let's take say, the Vietnam War - probably the leading critic, and in fact one of the leading dissident intellectuals in the mainstream, is Anthony Lewis of the New York Times, who did finally come around to opposing the Vietnam War about 1969 - about a year and a half after Corporate America had more or less ordered Washington to call it off, and his picture from then on is that the war (as he put it) began with blundering efforts to do good, but it ended up by 1969 being a disaster and costing us too much - and that's the criticism...

Marr: So, what would the "non-propaganda model" have told Americans about the Vietnam War at the same time?

Chomsky: Same thing that the mainstream press was telling them about Afghanistan. The United States invaded South [Vietnam]... had first of all in the 1950s set up a standard Latin American-style terror state, which had massacred tens of thousands of people, but was unable to control local uprising (and everyone knows - at least every specialist knows - that's what it was), and when Kennedy came in, in 1961, they had to make a decision, because the South [Vietnamese] government was collapsing under local attack, so the U.S. just invaded the country. In 1961 the U.S. airforce started bombing South Vietnamese civilians, authorised Napalm crop destruction... then in 1965 - January, February 1965 - the next major escalation took place against South Vietnam, not against North Vietnam - that was a sideshow - that's what an honest press would be saying, but you can't find a trace of it.


  Ironically, I also strongly believe that it was also partially responsible for the war's longevity and sometimes worry that the current movement may also be contributing on some level, albeit to a lesser extent, to the continuance of the war in Iraq.

Explain this bizarre accusation.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Aug 27th, 2007 at 07:13:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When I think about it, it's not a bizarre accusation. It's possible that the hawks dig their heels and press on unreasonably in the face of domestic opposition precisely in order not to lose face domestically.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 27th, 2007 at 07:20:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There was already a huge loss of face involved - the US losing to little Vietnam, and the whole dominoes argument used for years. I don't think the opposition to the war did much to influence those already committed to it, they could be dismissed as radicals, leftists, soldiers against it as miguided, etc.

As Chomsky said, it was really the change in elite opinion that counted:

Clifford, like McNamara, had to deal with frequent requests for additional troops from military commanders in Vietnam. When he became secretary, the authorized force in Vietnam was 525,000. Soon after moving into his Pentagon office, Clifford persuaded Johnson to deny General William Westmoreland's request for an additional 206,000 American troops in Vietnam.

Eventually Clifford moved very close, with Johnson's tacit support, to the views McNamara held on Vietnam just before he left office -- no further increases in U.S. troop levels, support for the bombing halt, and gradual disengagement from the conflict. By this time Clifford clearly disagreed with Secretary of State Dean Rusk, who believed, according to The Washington Post, "that the war was being won by the allies" and that it "would be won if America had the will to win it." After he left office, Clifford, in the July 1969 issue of Foreign Affairs, made his views very clear: "Nothing we might do could be so beneficial . . . as to begin to withdraw our combat troops. Moreover . . . we cannot realistically expect to achieve anything more through our military force, and the time has come to begin to disengage. That was my final conclusion as I left the Pentagon...."


Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Aug 27th, 2007 at 08:11:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Lasthorseman on Sun Aug 26th, 2007 at 06:54:01 AM EST
I was aware of the anti-war movement primarily because of my father.  Soldiers, like those in the film and guys like John Kerry, probably ensured that he never had to go to jail or 'Nam.  (He was a conscientious objector.)  I grew up hearing stories of the soldiers and hippies.  Dan Rather came up a lot, too, as being one of the first -- if not the first -- among journalists to say, while jumping between foxholes, "Um, hey, America?  We're losing this war, and we're going to lose this war, no matter what the government says.".

Looks like an interesting film.  I'm going to try to check it out.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Aug 26th, 2007 at 11:17:48 AM EST
Walter Cronkite had a major impact when he became critical of the war.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Mon Aug 27th, 2007 at 12:50:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I kinda cheated in the poll, I said I was involved-and I was sort of, I was in USAF not deployed to Viet-Nam, but helped some of my buddies get off to Winnepeg (Canada).  The most anti-war people around my little town in the midwest (near manfrommiddletown) were the guys coming back from Viet-Nam.  And they were the ones that brough pot, and stronger stuff too, into the little towns.  After about 67 the returning soldiers were the ones most likely to tell their brothers and cousins and other young men NOT TO GO.

A lot of selective amnesia occurred later, especially from those veterans whe were embittered, but I was there and I saw it real plain.

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, You know I'm a peaceful man...'" Robbie Robertson

by NearlyNormal on Sun Aug 26th, 2007 at 08:36:11 PM EST
Apparently, BBC4 has also broadcasted a shorter - 49 min - version of this movie.

That one can be downloaded here for anyone wanting to make comparision.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Aug 26th, 2007 at 10:30:52 PM EST

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