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Iceland - Friedman's folly

by talos Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 11:21:49 AM EST

Chris Cook describes the recent developments in Iceland in his latest diary. Here I would like to highlight a few things leading to the disaster.

...It transpires that Milton Friedman visited Iceland in the 1980s and made quite an impression there.

There's even a relevant lemma in Wikipedia, where it is explained that:

Friedman made a great impact on a group of young intellectuals in the Independence Party, including Davíð Oddsson who became Prime Minister in 1991 and began a radical program of monetary and fiscal stabilization, privatization, tax rate reduction... definition of exclusive use rights in fisheries, abolition of various government funds for aiding unprofitable enterprises and liberalization of currency transfers and capital markets. In 1975, Iceland had the 53rd freest economy in the world, while in 2004, it had the 9th freest economy, according to the Economic Freedom of the World index designed by Canada's Fraser Institute.

David Oddson would later describe the influence of Friedman's ideas in a 2004 talk he gave at the American Enterprise Institute, the US neo-con think tank.  

Promoted by Colman


Oddson was singing the praises of Iceland's economic performance, giving props to Milton F. as the inspiration behind his government's reforms, and in hindsight, describing in detail the policies that led to disaster:

Politicians who lack clear political vision tend to go astray when there are many complex questions to ponder.

When Milton Friedman visited Iceland in the nineteen-eighties he was asked what solution he had to Iceland's economic problems. Friedman gave a simple answer: "The solution is freedom". The freedom of the individual and the freedom of the nation are the foundation of all well-being--spiritual and material alike. The motive behind attacking the Treasury deficit was not only its bad economic consequences. An equally important consideration was that a persistent deficit is a sure-fire recipe for higher taxes in the future, and higher taxes erode the freedom of the individual. Necessary as taxes may be, we must not forget that by their very nature they restrict our freedom... In the early nineteen-nineties, corporate income tax was 50 percent. The Government cut it first to 30 percent and later to 18 percent, and Treasury revenues and economic growth actually increased as a result.

Personal income tax has already been lowered and during the current government's term of office it will be reduced by a further four percentage points. An income tax surcharge on the highest incomes will also be removed, and inheritance tax has been reduced and harmonised at a level which will never exceed 5 percent. In addition, it is planned to reduce value-added tax on food, which will benefit the lowest income groups in particular. I am convinced that these tax cuts will greatly strengthen the Icelandic economy well into the future. And not just the economy. The whole of society flourishes and becomes more diverse when each and every one of us keeps more of what we earn and can dispose of it as we please.

The political dialogue in the last century revolved around the dispute between those who believe in control and those who believe in freedom. Between those who regard the state as the be-all and end-all of everything, and those who are convinced that freedom of word and deed is the foundation for progress and prosperity. The privatisation debate touches on the essence of this conflict. When the Government launched its privatisation programme it encountered heavy political opposition. Left-wingers found fault with everything, and every time some state enterprise was supposed to be sold off, in their view precisely that enterprise happened to be the cornerstone of society. It did not matter whether a wool factory, printing company or fish meal factory was being privatised--the counter-argument was always that market forces were now taking over an important public service. So it was necessary to proceed slowly. There is little point in hoisting all the sails only to run aground on the nearest rock. But gradually the public noticed that the doomsday prophecies did not come true--far from it, service improved and expanded after privatisation. And support has steadily been growing for the view that market forces need to have as much say as possible. That a special case must be argued every time that the state undertakes to provide a certain service, such as health care or education.

He then goes on to gloat about the success of bank privatization:

I am convinced... that it would not have been appropriate to sell off the state-owned commercial banks at an early stage. The nation needed to have reached a broad understanding that it was advisable for the state to release its grip on this important market. The point has now been reached where the state has withdrawn completely from operations of financial companies, apart from housing loans, and the Icelandic financial market is much stronger as a result. Banks are now more capable of backing Icelandic business and have been expanding overseas on a growing scale. This is a very positive development which shows beyond all doubt the enormous force unleashed when the state entrusts individuals with freedom of action.

Here is an interview Friedman gave on Icelandic TV in the 1980s.

(If the embed doesn't work for you, here is the direct link)..
More recently, another economist was publishing a paper specifically about Iceland, but on a different note. Joseph Stiglitz's "Monetary and exchange rate policy in small open economies: the case of Iceland (2001)" was discussing risk reduction:

This paper discusses monetary and exchange rate policy and the financial risks that are involved for small open economies in the current environment of less restricted and increased volume of global capital movements. It then goes on to analyze the policy interventions that are available to reduce and manage these risks. The specific case of Iceland is discussed within this framework. While it might be preferable if the problems posed by global financial instability are addressed by reforms in the global financial architecture, significant reforms are not likely to emerge in the near future. In the meanwhile, countries such as Iceland must take responsibility for their own welfare by managing these risks. That entails actions that reduce the likelihood of a crisis occurring and that reduce the costs incurred when the crisis occurs. Tax and regulatory policies (including financial sector regulation and disclosure regulation) can and should be used both to reduce the likelihood of a crisis and to help manage the economy through a crisis. Such regulations can affect short-term capital flows, which have been at the center of recent crises. There are arguments for the use of price-based interventions and controls imposed through prudential banking regulations. But reducing the risks faced by a country requires even more extensive action: it entails focusing on appropriate bankruptcy codes, exchange rate regimes, and designs of financial systems.

This however was the sort of discourse dismissed by the reigning Friedmanites, that might have averted the worst of the crisis.

Of course some people in Iceland as well (the Left-wingers Oddson denounces in his speech) were actively opposing this but to no great avail. Steingrímur J. Sigfússon chairman of the Icelandic Left-Green movement, recently wrote about the policies that were already underway as Oddson spoke at the AEI:

In the years 2003-2004, government-supported projects of heavy industry investments in aluminum smelters and big hydro-electrical and geothermal power plants set off inflation and increased overheating pressures.  This was followed by tax reductions, benefiting mostly the high-income classes and owners of big estates and capital.  This, of course, added to the increasing inflation.  The housing market was booming and there was also mismanagement in that area.  On top of all this, the financial sector, based on newly privatized banks and investment funds, expanded very rapidly and bought up subsidiaries overseas that expanded to big operations in the UK, Scandinavia, Continental Europe, and even in the US.

This led to a huge hypertrophy of the banking and financial sector relative to the Icelandic GDP.  Many alarming signs were hovering above our heads in the years 2005, 2006, and 2007, but no measures were taken.  The atmosphere was a thoroughly laissez-faire one.  The government and leading members of the business sector seemed to think that the upswing in the economy and good years would last forever.

(Both the AEI talk and the Stiglitz paper were via Toby Sanger's article in AlterNet, which has a great recap of the situation).

I hope our Nordic contingent might be able to add more regarding the popular attitudes that allowed the crisis and the effect of the crisis in everyday life. Anyway it's always useful, even now, to be able to point out the kind of ideoleptic nonsense behind this collapse - especially in a forum such as EuroTrib that was yelling and shouting about the precipice the whole world economy was being driven to by Friedman's evil minions the world over.

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Great diary.

One of the problems I see in Iceland which I think is an urgent problem for "an economics of the left" or "heterodox economics" to consider is... how can a place like Iceland grow?

Part of the reason the Friedmanite gospel was so enthusiastically embraced was that it offered a small island in the North Atlantic with limited trade resources a way to greater prosperity.

Fish and wool are just not the engines of wealth-bringing trade at this moment. The green (thermal) power makes life in Iceland more sustainable, but it's not something you can export.

Now I'll agree that no-one in Iceland has an intrinsic right to afford Range Rovers and other status symbols that the owners of the privatised banks in particular seemed to love...

Still... does an "economics of the left" really hold out anything more than the decline of resource-poor regions?

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 09:05:36 AM EST
Time to do what I do best ... ask questions.
 

Now I'll agree that no-one in Iceland has an intrinsic right to afford Range Rovers and other status symbols that the owners of the privatised banks in particular seemed to love...


Still... does an "economics of the left" really hold out anything more than the decline of resource-poor regions?

Question based on top quote:  Are you defining "the good life" as being able to afford "Range Rovers" etc, .  Are Range Rovers even useful, practical in Iceland's environment or would it just be a status symbol?

Question based on bottom quote:  The "decline" that you are concerned about ... is this simply the loss of the ability to have wall-to-wall Range Rovers or are we talking about having nothing to exchange for the basics ... food, fuel, etc.?

Time to start questioning the ASSUMPTIONS, one of the beginnings of change.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 09:31:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Uh...

I guess I didn't express it clearly.

I'm saying that there is no reason to build particular "earth-killing" status symbols into an economic model.

However... I'm also saying food and fuel is not enough!

Is there a mechanism in leftist economics for countries who have limited resources to move beyond subsistence living?

For people - there's redistribution, safety nets and education. But we haven't begun to develop these things seriously for countries...

It's mostly a point about why the Friedmanite model is psychologically appealing if you don't live in a big country with lots of resources...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 10:10:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Is there a mechanism in leftist economics for countries who have limited resources to move beyond subsistence living?

OK, good place to start.

Question: The US loves to enhance its standard of liveing through (what I would define as) illegal means; example, invasion of Iraq to secure crude oil resources.  Are you allowing for illegal/immoral "mechanisms"?  If not, that's cool.  Just asking questions.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 10:19:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspect we can rule out the unethical 'means' of wealth generation--metatone correct me if not-- maybe  what we really need to ask is first what type of 'wealth' are we talking about?

Obviously, not Range Rovers, but perhaps relatively sophisticated manufactured goods? Ovens, refrigerators, washers--standard appliances that are truly labor saving and improve the quality of life. Another level of wealth would be those thing which are entertaining and useful in drawing us closer to the larger world, computers, routers, televisions, radios, etc.

Robert Wright postulated in NonZeroSum that the world was on an evolutionary course toward greater knowledge /complexity, effected, as he saw it by more tightly intergrated transportation and communication mechanisms, those in turn were driven by man's natural propensity to trade. In his view, trade was an underlying mechanism--rather like natural selection--that was a driving force for social evolution.

Of course, as we all know, if we've read our Gould, there's no reason to suggest that evolution has any real 'goal' or purpose. Biology is not necessarily teleological. We just like to think of ourselves as an obvious endpoint, rather than say the horse (I'd personally argue that bacteria could make a greater claim as a 'sucessful' species, but I digress) So arguments about the mechanisms of 'trade' as evolutionary and good and leading to the glorious flat world (qua T. Friedman and M. Friedman) are just that--arguments. There's nothing to suggest that a society--or collection of societies --that manage to trade excessively and create lots of stuff -- is actually better suited for survival than a society that trades less, has less of those things we call 'wealth' but perhaps prioritizes their cultural so that communication and knowledge exchange is highly valued, material exchange, not so much.

So I'm thinking the idea of wealth needs to be understood outside of a commoditized context. Wealth is not necessarily 'a thing', wealth can perhaps better be thought of as a comfortable relation between the physical world and ourselves; and that comfort should be thought of in both pyschological and physical terms. For example I think there are huge pyschic imbalances in the western world view that sees  animals, land and water as a means towards wealth generation and not an end in and of itself. When metatone described the idea of 'subsistence' living, as some how 'not' wealthy, I was struck by how fundamentally locked into the idea of 'wealth as things' we are. I think if we're going to survive as a species (which I am deeply in favor of) we need to move beyond that view.

by delicatemonster (delicatemons@delicatemonster.com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 10:59:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We should have a full blown discussion here at ET.  I gotta go for my morning walk and cookie buying run (got a tutoring student coming by this afternoon.  Promised her cookies if she would invest her time in a weekend session.) but I will return.

Question:  What is the "good life" that people are striving for?

YES   YES  YES !!!

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 11:29:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but what do you expect from a bonnie raitt fan?

interesting diary...of course friedman's voodoo looked good, laying in the hot springs wishing you could vary your rotted shark diet, and wondering what your home would be worth if glossy malls and phat SUVs started springing up everywhere...

like alchemists of old, turn dross into cash, baby, live now, pay later, it's magic, look we're real first-worlders now.

as goes iceland today, so will go england tomorrow.

over-populated, resources inadequate and abused, self-sufficiency will have to take over from lying for money phancy phinancial shervices as prime national priority.

and a better country will ensue, once the corner's turned...

and the icelanders will get back in their free sulphur-water and get back to phantasising about the next cargo cultist who will come along and show them how to be real players in the Great CON Game.

they might still have the last laugh, as england struggles to make enough hot water to keep 60,000,000+ people clean, beating old range-rovers into solar water heaters in the rain, or gathering peat on the windy moors or salty bogs to warm their wee hearths!

i wish i could be sure that this cycle will not rpeat itself ad infinitum, seems people are historically always  suckers for a get-rich-quick scheme, the great free lunch in the sky...

maybe we'll write an epic saga so spielbergian, so wagnerian it will be chanted for millennia around our mugs of lichen tea as we huddle cosily in our igloos, barding and quothing and quaffing away:

"beware of the silver-tongued economists, with their smooth come-ons, rolex watches and pretty, pretty lies.

when they whisper sweet nuthins about how they'd like to mortgage your mother and privatise your ass, tell 'em to take a long hike on a short glacier, and come back when they get a clue."

it's the LORE, adapt or migrate!

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 07:38:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...melo...that was an absolutely bloody brilliant comment.

An ET classic.

melo:

maybe we'll write an epic saga so spielbergian, so wagnerian it will be chanted for millennia around our mugs of lichen tea as we huddle cosily in our igloos, barding and quothing and quaffing away:

Lichen tea....priceless....

melo:

when they whisper sweet nuthins about how they'd like to mortgage your mother and privatise your ass, tell 'em to take a long hike on a short glacier, and come back when they get a clue."

a long hike on a short glacier...

I almost choked on my croissant....

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Oct 26th, 2008 at 06:17:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nice.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Sun Oct 26th, 2008 at 01:13:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Turn down the light
Turn down the bed
Turn down these voices
inside my head,

Lay down with me
Tell me no lies
Just hold me close-
Don't patronise

------Don't patronise.

-Bonnie Raitt

From another Bonnie Raitt fan.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Sun Oct 26th, 2008 at 01:34:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
she always found such grown-up lyricists, such taste and grit in her playing and singing.

my heroine...

the person i would most like to meet and jam with.

bar none

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Oct 26th, 2008 at 07:30:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It was fun jamming with her the one time I did, a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.  Memory fades; we were all pretty loaded that night.
by rifek on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 02:28:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the closest i got was a jam with freebo at a texas songwriters' festival, and i wasn't half near loaded enough...

what were you playing?

if you remember...

:)

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 08:05:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In my village the vampires will not be allowed to move on, although they will be allowed to take a walk, to die with their guts wrapped around a standing stone, sacrificed to wiser gods than the ones that have overseen the current fiasco.  Ooo, I feel myself sinking into the sagas.
by rifek on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 02:00:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't have small, resource-poor countries. Seriously. There's no inherent reason why countries are the size they are and why borders are located where they are - those are both political parameters that can be shuffled by political decisions.

If it is, for technical reasons, impossible to maintain what any given day and age would consider a prosperous society in a certain geographic area, the obvious solution is to either transfer wealth from areas that are more hospitable to the development of what is considered a prosperous society, or transfer people the other way.

I'll assume that forced transfer of people is out of the question, but there is little reason in principle that voluntary movements should be discouraged (although there may be practical barriers that need to be overcome, such as language differences or issues related to labour rights). Bulk transfer of wealth to poor districts is a routine part of what states do.

As an aside, it's sometimes the case that the borders themselves, rather than geography are the problem - witness the fact that free cities were ubiquitous during the Hanseatic Era, existed where conditions were favourable during the Middle Ages but declined sharply from the Renaissance onward.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 01:52:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem with these discussions is figuring out precisely what is an economics of the left and what exactly is free market capitalism. Too often, we resort to old bromides about communism and capitalism.

That's the discussion in the general public, anyway.

But if we're limiting the discussion to more regulation of a capitalistic system versus less regulation, then it seems the most prudent course is to avoid wild swings in the economy which displace and disrupt the lives of working people, and indeed families.

Otherwise, a nation such as Iceland--with few resources for export--is living on vapor anyway.

Surely, between nationalizing fisheries and gov't completely abandoning education and health care, there is a space for rational capitalism.

Older economists (and I'm thinking of my professors who were already 80 years old in the 1980s) used to say that every 30 years or so, imbalances happen and that's when the wealth needs to be redistributed. The irony, I believe, is that people like Friedman understand this. They understand that there is no pure concept of freedom that would see wealth freely accumulate at the highest echelons, whereas the mid-to-lower ranks become progressively poorer. I'm not sure that Friedman, within a capitalist context, would describe this as Friedman.

What's left unsaid, however, in a free market capitalist model is that, even though we recognize that huge wealth imbalances are completely unhealthy for capitalism, they will happen, because people are greedy. Of what benefit is it for an uber-wealthy capitalist to redistribute his own wealth when all the other rich guys are still accumulating?

Greed is the default failure of the free-market system.

by Upstate NY on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 10:58:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the problem with the "economics of the right" is that building a financial bubble to produce "growth" results in a bad crash, in this case as bad as having the country as a whole default on foreign obligations.

It remains to be seen what the GDP of Iceland will be when thing settle down - maybe the cycle-average growth rate won't be anything to write home about.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 11:44:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are 3 large aluminum smelters in Iceland, one more just built, and more planned. Aluminum has a 37% share of Iceland's exports.

Smelting is very very energy intensive. Hence bauxite by bulk carrier to Iceland to smelter ports, free electricity (more or less), and then ingots exported.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 12:36:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Metatone:
One of the problems I see in Iceland which I think is an urgent problem for "an economics of the left" or "heterodox economics" to consider is... how can a place like Iceland grow?

Culture, art and innovation. People like culture and art and are willing to spend huge sums on them. Encouraging them a little, creating new market models for both art and innovation, and moving the centre of gravity of the economy away from meaningless financial bullshit towards 'service' products that actually service people could do something interesting.

Markets and distribution methods are potentially global now, so as long as there's decent bandwidth there's no reason any country in the world should be left out.

Yes, this would lead to some extent to the creation of self-funding funny money. But that's what happens already anyway. The only difference now is that people believe - or used to believe - that their money, and its managers, were Very Serious™.

That's about to change, and something low maintenance but productive needs to take its place.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 08:46:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
culture, art and innovation, yes indeedy...

great comment, top to toe...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 09:18:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Iceland started its financial ball rolling because it had massive savings accumulated over decades.  Instead of maintaining that discipline and the highly livable society it supported, though, it succumbed to Friedman's tent show, which said, "Cut out that nonsense and live like Americans" (i.e. don't pay for a safety net, allow destructive concentrations of wealth, externalize your costs on the rest of the world, leverage every dime of every asset you have to pay for your lifestyle), which was the same snake oil they sold to the entire world, even though they knew we would need a dozen vacant Earths available for us to plunder to pull that off.  I wish I believed in Hell so I could believe Friedman was frying there for eternity.
by rifek on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 09:35:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Metatone:
Fish and wool are just not the engines of wealth-bringing trade at this moment. The green (thermal) power makes life in Iceland more sustainable, but it's not something you can export.

Well, the latter is wrong on many levels. If the EU keeps clinging to its mistaken model of a hydrogen economy, then there's a lot of that for Iceland to export in the future. More plausibly, they can export the technology, processes, services and machine tools they use to get geothermal power.

Germany is making a lot of money from its 'green' technology right now (which goes from wind turbines to scrubbers to integrated production processes). Vestas is a huge company in the context of a small country like Denmark.

If Iceland stops drowning huge swathes of its natural reserves for large hydro to power aluminium smelters, it might conceivably drive up tourism by improving its green reputation.

See also this earlier discussion.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun Oct 26th, 2008 at 09:28:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
are one of the easiest ways to export your energy resource. Aluminum is essentially energy in metal form.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Oct 26th, 2008 at 04:50:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Somehow mining bauxite on one end of the earth to transport it to a remote location like Iceland where it is smelted only to be exported to yet another part of the world doesn't seem like the best model. Aside of the fact that Iceland doesn't use it's 'energy resource' for this, it is creating new energy sources in the form of large hydro at the cost of its natural capital, because nothing else is cheap and reliable enough. As Iceland has to compete with low cost countries who subsidise their energy, these smelters will never provide large scale, well-paying employment for Iceland's population. The country is planning to import the workers to fill most of the positions, probably from Eastern Europe. Not to mention the dependence Iceland is building into its current account balance on the price of aluminium, which is collapsing at this time.

Fortunately, the financial crisis seems to have had a dampening effect on this insanity.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 08:12:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So, if you import the aluminum and the labour, who reps the benefits of this?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 08:26:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See also This thread. It wanders off from Iceland to a discussion of "free trade" between myself and starvid, who has a moment of enlightenment in the course of it :-)

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 08:29:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That was a good thread.

Just to bug Starvid, the Audi A2 (in what was one of the stupidest decisions yet by Audi) has of course been discontinued. Was already discontinued at that time!

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 09:36:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Friedman = Freedom, haha.
by Upstate NY on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 10:59:17 AM EST
yup they wanted freed markets, they got fried markets...

shoulda run spellcheck, lol

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 07:46:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Many alarming signs were hovering above our heads in the years 2005, 2006, and 2007, but no measures were taken.  The atmosphere was a thoroughly laissez-faire one.  The government and leading members of the business sector seemed to think that the upswing in the economy and good years would last forever.

A fitting epitaph for the cult of Friedman.

We all bleed the same color.

by budr on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 01:19:17 PM EST
I started posting on my blog nearly three years ago that it was all going to fall apart, and soon.  Everything fell in from there: 1) ARMs reset; 2) real estate started to deflate; 3) the Fed cut rates in a futile attempt to shore up mortgage-backed securities; 4) the heavily devalued dollar dropped through the floor against commodities and other currencies; 5) the run-up against the dollar could not be maintained in the face of the global, insolvency-caused credit crunch; 6) everything started to come to ground like the Hindenburg; 7) here we are.
by rifek on Sat Oct 25th, 2008 at 10:21:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed.  The hand writing has been on the wall for years.  Anyone who didn't know this was coming has been in a coma for most of the Bush presidency.  I wrote sometime back in the summer that the frantic efforts of Paulson and Bernanke to keep the bubble going past the election was like two men with a bicycle pump trying to keep a blimp aloft.  The longer and harder they pumped, the bigger the crash when it came.

We all bleed the same color.
by budr on Sun Oct 26th, 2008 at 02:13:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
is very easy to see.

His thinking rests on the assumption that man is a failed being, and that therefore we can't trust government to regulate man. Man's ideas, as a projection of that essential wretchedness, inevitably fail when we erect governmental systems putting those ideas into play.

Of course, the Friedmans of the world fail to apply this same notion of wretchedness to other systems and apparatuses (such as market economies), and that's exactly where the problem lies.

Instead, they believe that forms of competition will result in the best ideas winning out. The problem here again, borrowing their ideology, is that ideas sometimes/mostimes can't overcome this so-called wretchedness.

Nietzsche wrote that since the dawn of man, the ideas that won out were the errors, common sense is simply the reproduction of the strongest ideas, the ideas held by the brute, which came to seem natural after a long time.

There is no guarantee that in any form of competition, the best (whatever that means) ideas will win out. Bad ideas are just as capable of winning in any form of competition.

by Upstate NY on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 09:29:09 AM EST
"wretchedness" describes somewhat the state of the average worker in 19th century England, when the concept of an industrialized society was taking hold. It describes a two class society: the wealthy aristocrats and the impoverished worker, with a small interclass of low-paid clerks who kept the books. This class society is Friedman's ideal and where any implementation of his ideas logically end. The concept of "freedom" is incapable of containing a stronger impulse called "greed," which is why wealth is always transfer up and not down.

That is likely why Friedman's economics is best referred to as social Darwinism, which is how I think of it. Yes, we have cell phones today and investment helped this invention along, although it would have happened anyway. The trouble is that after paying all this money for a cell phone and service, I don't have anyone to call.


by shergald on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 12:50:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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