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What are the meta rules of the EP elections?

by A swedish kind of death Wed Mar 4th, 2009 at 11:25:31 AM EST

The rules of the election game differs from country to country, but I assume that there are some meta rules, on the EU level. Rules that specify what methods of distributing seats are accetable to the EU. And such.

I have no idea where to find these, so I´ll just pose the question and see what pops up.

With poll!

Poll
My guess is that the meta-rules
. does not exist / are not codified 0%
. are spread out over a dozen treaties 33%
. are clearly written and easy to find 33%
. are written in piglatin and specifies that chanting monks must be present at the polling station, however this rule is mostly ignored 33%

Votes: 3
Results | Other Polls
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What are the meta rules of the EP elections? | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Maastricht ('92) says.... (4.00 / 2)
"The European Parliament shall draw up proposals for elections by direct universal suffrage in accordance with a uniform procedure in all Member States."

I haven't yet found those proposals...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Mar 4th, 2009 at 11:36:52 AM EST
Re: What are the meta rules of the EP elections? (4.00 / 4)
Entering European Parliament Election Rules into teh google would have gotten you here quicker, but ah well, here you go.

See the third link at the bottom for a more formal representation. From there you can find the relevant Decisions, Regulations and Directives (well, you'll have to go over to eur-lex to search for them because there are no links, but hey...)

And of course finding out what it all means is yet another thing.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Mar 4th, 2009 at 12:51:21 PM EST
Re: What are the meta rules of the EP elections? (none / 1)
I'm surprised that a comparative study with the Eurovision Song Contest has not yet been published ;-)

There is much to be learned...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Mar 4th, 2009 at 01:07:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
now THAT was funny (none / 0)
lmao
by jjellin on Wed Mar 4th, 2009 at 07:27:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you (4.00 / 2)
Well, now I did not have to search teh google through the tubes.

Simple enough meta-rules:

United in diversity: Rules for the European Parliamentary elections

All MEPs are elected by universal suffrage in free elections by secret ballot on the basis of proportional representation, rather than the first past the post system that had been used in some Member States and still is used for national elections.
 
However, countries can be subdivided into electoral regions to which proportional representation is applied. Ireland, the UK, Italy, France and Belgium use this system.
 
Countries can also impose a threshold not higher than 5% of all votes, at a national level, that a party or candidate must reach to be represented in the European Parliament.

For those who does not bother to follow the links, note that the second link, HOW THE EUROPEAN UNION WORKS, contains all the rules of all member states nicely aggregated. That is a link that will probably come in handy.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Mar 4th, 2009 at 06:23:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Thank you (none / 1)
The later rule being subverted by the presence of many national or regional disctricts electing fewer than 20 MEPs...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Mar 4th, 2009 at 06:33:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Thank you (none / 1)
That also affects the proportionality of the proportional representation. If you have districts with 1 MEP then it is not much of proportionality left, now is there?

So, new question. What are the size (in MEPs) of the smallest national or regional disctricts?

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Mar 5th, 2009 at 04:47:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Thank you (4.00 / 2)
To start answering this myself, we have got the following.

HOW THE EUROPEAN UNION WORKS

B.  Constituency boundaries

Until 2003, in 11 Member States (Germany, Austria, Denmark, Spain, Finland, France, Greece, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal and Sweden) the whole country formed a single electoral area. In four Member States (Belgium, Ireland, Italy and the United Kingdom) the national territory was divided into a number of constituencies. Most new Member States have introduced single electoral areas (e.g. the Czech Republic and Hungary). Poland has 13 regional constituencies.

Since the 2002 Council Decision, a number of the old Member States have amended or are amending national laws. France has abandoned the use of a single electoral constituency and has established eight large regional constituencies: Northwest, West, East, Southwest, Southeast, Massif Central, Île-de-France and Overseas. In Germany, although the electoral legislation will not be changed, parties are allowed to present lists of candidates at either Land or national level. Similarly, in Finland parties may present their lists at either constituency or national level.

According to Nice rules (and Lisbon) Cyprus, Estonia and Luxembourg has 6 seats each. Malta has 5 (would have been 6 under Lisbon rules).

Belgium, Ireland, Italy, the United Kingdom, Poland and France has regional districts. Does any have smaller districts then 5 MEPs?

What I am getting at here is if there is any rule really preventing a country from turning it into a FTP or otherwise by creating small enough districts.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Mar 5th, 2009 at 07:12:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Irish Constituencies (none / 1)
European Parliament constituency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ireland European Parliament election, 2004 (Ireland) - constituencies Constituency Area Seats Pop. per Seat
Dublin Dublin 4 1.2m 275k
East Leinster less Dublin 3 1.1m 333k
South Munster less Clare 3 1.1m 333k
North-West Connacht plus Cavan, Donegal, Monaghan, Clare 3 880k 270k
Total 13 4.2m 300k

Ireland operates a multi-seat single transferable vote proportional electoral system where voters vote for candidates, not parties, although voters party affiliation (or none) are indicated on the ballot paper.

In National/Euro elections, constituencies are of 3, 4 or 5 seats although when the Irish EP representation went down from 15 to 13, two constituencies lost a seat and there is no 5 seat Euro constituency left.

A candidate is elected by reaching a quota is which is calculated by dividing the vote by the no. of seats+1 and adding 1 - thus ensuring that 3 and only thre candidates can reach the quota.

Thus in a 3 seat constituency the quota ends up being 25% of the vote (+1 vote)
.

On the face of it, this would appear to present a rather high 25% barrier to entry.  However because votes are transferable, all it takes is for a number of (e.g. left/green) candidates to obtain c. 25% of the vote between them and transfer the vote effciency between them.

The transfer mechanism works by how the voter has marked their ballot paper.  Instead of an X for one candidate, a voter goes 1,2,3,4,5 in order of preference for the candidates he likes and can ignore other candidates completely.  When the votes are counted they are counted on the basis of the No. 1 preferences first.  If that candidate is elected (on reaching the quota) or eliminated (on being the lowest remaining candidate) his votes are redistributed to remaining candidates on the basis of the 2nd. preference on his ballot papers.  (in the cases of an elected candidate, only his SURPLUS pver and above the quota is redistributed as his quota of votes has already elected him cannot be used to elect another.)

It all seems very complicated to an outsider, but is a joy to aficionados and is surprisingly well understood by the population as a whole.  It allows for all kinfs of party alliances, regional alliances, issues alliances - e.g. women tend to transfer more to women - and allows for no end of more or less informed speculation by the pundocracy which is an important part of marketing the electoral process itself.

The bottom line is that even an independent candidate, or one representing a minor party can get elected provided the candidate is popular and is seen as being closely aligned with other candides who have been eliminated and whos votes have become available for transfer.  It encourages alliances and working together rather than polarisation within the sustem, as polarising candidates tend nopt to get many transfers from others.   Thus a Sinn Fein candidate, typically, needs to get a higher first preference vote than a Labour candidate, because the latter is likely to pick up more lower preference transfer votes on subsequent counts.

I will write up a more detailed account - with examples - in a diary shortly if people are interested.

Bottom line, I think it is a good system because it does allow a degree of proportionality, and there are always people who get elected without necessarily being favoured party hacks.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Mar 5th, 2009 at 08:12:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Irish Constituencies (none / 0)
Interesting system.

Frank Schnittger:

I will write up a more detailed account - with examples - in a diary shortly if people are interested.

Please do.

Frank Schnittger:

because it does allow a degree of proportionality

I hope you will cover approximately how high a degree of proportionality. On first glance I would guess larger parties benefit, though they do that in most systems.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Mar 5th, 2009 at 08:30:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Irish Constituencies (none / 1)
If I read Wiki right, the change from 2004 to 2009 will be the reduction of Dublin, too, to 3.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Mar 5th, 2009 at 08:37:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Irish Constituencies (none / 0)
Yes - this is unfortunate, as the degree of proportionality is obviously higher in a 5 or 4 seat constituency than it is in a 3 seat one.  However dividing the country into regional constituencies does preserve a local element to the election, there is more of a chance than you know at least some of the candidates personally, and there is thus less of a tendency to promote "celebrity" candidates for their name recognition alone.

A key feature of the system - unlike the UK first past the post one - is that there is almost no such thing as a wasted vote.  Unless you only indicate a preference for a few very marginal candidates, your vote ends up electing someone, even if it isn't your first choice.  Thuis there is no such thing as a "safe" constituency where there is little point in voting because e.g. a  Labour, or Tory candidate is sure to win in any case.

Lots of people vote tactically - voting for minor candidates who they know won't be elected but whom they want to encourage, but then ensuring their vote ends up electing the least unacceptable mainstream candidate.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Mar 5th, 2009 at 08:51:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Thank you (none / 0)
Checking on Wikipedia and elsewhere,

  • smallest sub-national district in Italy: Isole (the islands), 9 MEPs (largest: Nord-Ovest, 20);

  • smallest full-country district: Malta, 5 MEPs;

  • smallest sub-national district in France: Outre-Mer, 3 MEPs (largest: Île-de-France, Sud-Est (tied), 13);

  • smallest sub-national district in the UK: Northern Ireland, North East England (tie), 3 MEPs (largest: Southeast England, 10);

  • sub-national districts in Ireland: 3 MEPs (all four, if I read it right);

  • smallest sub-national district in Belgium: the German-speaking region sends 1 MEP (the two main ones 13 and 8);

  • smallest sub-national district in Poland: ? In 2004, Bydgoszcz sent just 1 MEP (the largest districts sent 8).


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Mar 5th, 2009 at 08:34:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Thank you (none / 0)
Ah. I find that in Poland, the seats accredited to the sub-national constituencies aren't pre-set based on population numbers, but will be determined by the national election commision based on the number of votes cast! However, I guess 1 for Bydgoszcz will remain the record low.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Mar 5th, 2009 at 08:47:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Thank you (none / 0)
Interesting. I would have guessed that a 5% limit (and not lower) is also a fixed rule.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Mar 5th, 2009 at 06:52:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In conclusion (none / 0)
To conclude what I learnt here, the real rules as they appear to be are:

  • All MEPs are elected by universal suffrage in free elections by secret ballot on the basis of proportional representation, if the country chooses to have large enough districts for this to mean anything.

  • Countries can also impose a threshold not higher than 5% of all votes, at a national level, that a party or candidate must reach to be represented in the European Parliament.

  • Countries decide voting age themselves, this does not break the definition of universal suffrage.

Pretty loose meta-rules, if you ask me. Though of course the political prise for blatantly subverting the intention of the rules might be high enough. (Just like we previously concluded that Turkey may legally sneak into the union by joining an existing memberstate, politically they could probably not.)

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Mar 6th, 2009 at 07:16:38 AM EST
Re: In conclusion (none / 0)
, if the country chooses to have large enough districts for this to mean anything.

That was meant to be part of the second point, I take.

A further issue that should be interesting: what are the different national rules on getting on the ballot?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Mar 6th, 2009 at 08:35:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: In conclusion (none / 0)
It fits on both points. I was mainly thinking about one-seat districts when placing it under point one, as then proportional distribution means nothing.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Mar 6th, 2009 at 03:54:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: In conclusion (none / 0)
I found one single one-seat district (in Poland).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Mar 6th, 2009 at 07:03:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: In conclusion (none / 1)
You found two:

DoDo:

  • smallest sub-national district in Belgium: the German-speaking region sends 1 MEP (the two main ones 13 and 8);

  • smallest sub-national district in Poland: ? In 2004, Bydgoszcz sent just 1 MEP (the largest districts sent 8).


Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Sat Mar 7th, 2009 at 04:14:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: In conclusion (none / 0)
Heh... forgot about that.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Mar 7th, 2009 at 07:13:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: In conclusion (none / 0)
DoDo:
A further issue that should be interesting: what are the different national rules on getting on the ballot?

Here is the overview:

HOW THE EUROPEAN UNION WORKS

D.  Right to stand for election

Apart from the requirement of nationality of an EU Member State, which is common to all the Member States, conditions vary from one to another.

1.  Minimum age

18 in Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Spain, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Portugal and most new Member States, 19 in Austria, 21 in Belgium, Greece, the Czech Republic, Ireland, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and the United Kingdom, 23 in France and 25 in Italy.

2.  Residence

In Luxembourg, since the new electoral law of 18 February 2003, at least five years' residence is required (previously ten years) to enable a Community national to stand for election to the European Parliament. Moreover, a list may not comprise a majority of candidates who do not have Luxembourgish nationality.

E.  Nominations

In some Member States (Denmark, Germany, Greece, Estonia, the Netherlands, Sweden and the Czech Republic) only political parties and political organisations may submit nominations. In the other countries nominations may be submitted if they are endorsed by the required number of signatures or electors, and in some cases (Ireland, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom) a deposit is also required. In Ireland and Italy candidates may nominate themselves if they are endorsed by the required number of signatures.

And I believe the Newropeans has done some research on the topic?

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Mar 6th, 2009 at 04:38:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What are the meta rules of the EP elections? | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)


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