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Daniel Cohn-Bendit on Greece

by Luis de Sousa Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 05:50:33 AM EST


Please accept my apologies if this video has been posted already, but it is quite a compelling intervention.

While I was already aware Greece dedicated an unusual high amount of its budget to Military expenditures, these figures put forth by Daniel Cohn-Bendit are quite staggering, even shocking. One can't help felling Greece is being left on its own to the lions...

Cyprus was invaded in 1974 by Turkey, a member of Nato, and since then no one has made much about it, inspite of the adhesion of half of the island to the EU in 2003. Some background on the Aegean conflict can be found at Wikipaedia:

Aegean dispute

Cyprus dispute

There's a long way to go before the EU becomes a truly solidarian state. At least with present leaders, whom can only think about their next internal election. This is partly a problem of the Council being held by locally elected representatives and partly a problem of leadership - they simply can't think like Europeans.

Here are a few more versions of the video subtitled in other languages:

Greek

Castellan

Portuguese

German

Italian

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European Tribune - Daniel Cohn-Bendit on Greece
Cyprus was invaded in 1974 by Turkey, a member of Nato, and since then no one has made much about it, inspite of the adhesion of half of the island to the EU in 2003.
This would be like blaming the Falkland war on Britain rather than on a desperate attempt by the Argentinean junta to shore up the popularity of their dictatorship.

Turkish invasion of Cyprus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the spring of 1974, Cypriot intelligence discovered that EOKA-B was planning a coup against President Makarios[25] which was sponsored by the military junta of Athens.

The junta had come to power in a military coup in 1967 which was condemned by the whole of Europe but had the support of the United States. In the autumn of 1973 after the 17 November student uprising there had been a further coup in Athens in which the original Greek junta had been replaced by one still more obscurantist headed by the Chief of Military Police, Brigadier Ioannides, though the actual head of state was General Phaedon Gizikis.

On 2 July 1974, Makarios wrote an open letter to President Gizikis complaining bluntly that 'cadres of the Greek military regime support and direct the activities of the 'EOKA-B' terrorist organization'. The Greek Government's immediate reply was to order the go-ahead to the conspiracy. On 15 July 1974 sections of the Cypriot National Guard, led by its Greek officers, overthrew the Government.

Intercommunal conflict in Cyprus came to a head because of a coup launched by the Greek Junta (in power with US support!) and all we remember about it is that Turkey invaded Cyprus in response and is therefore to blame for Greece's oversized military?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 08:33:40 AM EST
I get your point and I wasn't trying to take sides on this particular matter. What I want to stress is that much hasn't been made to put an end to this conflict, which obviously benefits armament producers that supply both sides in parallel.

luis_de_sousa@mastodon.social
by Luis de Sousa (luis[dot]de[dot]sousa[at]protonmail[dot]ch) on Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 09:44:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Unless we want to debate Cyprus again here (which I'm sure no one wants to do) it's a lot more complicated than this. You obviously need to go into the 1950s and 1960s etc. But one simple complication I would throw in is that the greater part of the invasion and ethnic cleansing/voluntary exodus (whatever you want to call it) happened on August 14th, 1974. The coup had been over for more than 3 weeks. It was a short-lived coup, just 3 1/2 days. The democratically elected government had been restored in July. The Greeks and Turks were at a peace conference for 2 1/2 weeks already in Geneva. During the peace conference, Turkey launched operation Attila. There really is a reason why the world unanimously condemned the invasion, and why the UN resolutions against it exist to this day, and why even the USA imposed an embargo on Turkey. Heck, you mentioned the UK, and the UK has always been the promoter of Turkish interests in Cyprus precisely to avert Cypriot independence, and the invasion as launched on August 14th turned the UK gov't around 180 degrees.

I don't doubt that Greece feels it needs this weaponry to protect against Turkey, but I do question how much they need, and I would especially note that lots of gov't officials--especially in the military--have accepted bribes from military contractors, which naturally throws any strategic military planning out the window and makes it all suspect. If Cohn-Bendit is making it seem like the Greek politicians are not a party to the fleecing of Greek citizens when it comes to military spending, he's dead wrong.

by Upstate NY on Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 09:49:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Upstate NY:
it's a lot more complicated than this. You obviously need to go into the 1950s and 1960s etc
Yes, I agree it is all more complicated than I painted it, but you would also have to go back to the 1940's

Greek military junta of 1967-1974 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1947, the United States formulated the Truman Doctrine, and began to actively support a series of authoritarian governments in Greece, Turkey and Iran, in order to ensure that these states did not fall under Soviet influence.[1] With American and British aid, the civil war ended with the military defeat of the Left in 1949. The Communist Party of Greece (KKE) was outlawed and many Communists had to either flee the country or face persecution. The CIA and the Greek military began to work closely, especially after Greece joined NATO in 1952.[citation needed] Greece was a vital link in the NATO defense arc which extended from the eastern border of Iran to the north most point in Norway. Greece in particular was seen as being in risk, having experienced a Communist insurgency. In particular, the newly-founded Hellenic National Intelligence Service (KYP) and the LOK Special Forces (later actively involved in the 1967 coup) maintained a very close liaison with their American counterparts. In addition to preparing for a Soviet invasion, they agreed to guard against a left wing coup. The LOK in particular were integrated into the Gladio European stay-behind network.[2] Although there have been persistent rumors about an active support of the perpetrators of the coup d'état by the US government there is no evidence to support such claims.[3][4] It is however likely that the US military was informed of the coup a few days in advance by Greek liaison officers.[5]
So the UK and the US installed authoritarian nationalist governments in Greece, Turkey and Iran, with not unsurprising consequences...

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 09:59:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a history of misery.

We need to go back to look at the Balkans prior to Romantic Nationalism, also the Ottoman Empire before the beginnings of dissolution, and especially Cyprus before the threat of independence arose in the 1950s.

You have people getting along really well despite ethnic and religious differences. I will not say linguistic differences, because even the peasants were polyglot back then.

Pretty sad to see people so easily turned against their own interests.

by Upstate NY on Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 10:04:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
it's probably his fault.

The point is that NONE of this somebody-done-somebody-wrong stuff will justify a war between Turkey and Greece, so it certainly does not justify a military standoff and an arms race. Write a song about it instead.

The Greek and Turkish dogs need to decide conjointly to stop being wagged by their tails, the career nationalists on either side of the Green Line.

Terribly insensitive of me, I know.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 at 03:05:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
WTF?

Do you bother reading what I wrote?

I said go back to the period when these peoples got along really well.

Geez, nuts to you.

by Upstate NY on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 at 01:09:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Let me ask you this: are you even aware of what the current Greek-Turkish issues are?
by Upstate NY on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 at 01:10:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That was a rant from me, and certainly not directed at you (perhaps at Migeru though). I was staying with the spirit of DCB's speech ; none of the historical grievances can justify the exorbitant military budgets which are a drain on both nations.

I am somewhat aware of the context of Greek/Turkish issues. The subtext is clearly the massive exchanges of populations in the 1920s at the end of the Ottoman empire. Since then, both have had periods of military government, and obviously the military's stock in trade depends on keeping the sense of mutual grievance alive. My sentiment is that the populations of both countries are more than ready to  turn the page on the historical grievances, but that they need to break the logjam with respect to the military's inflated sense of its own importance. This is likely to be especially problematic in the case of Turkey, since the military have a very high sense of their role as guaranteeing national sovereignty (and hold considerable economic power to boot).

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Wed Jun 9th, 2010 at 11:13:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Accepted, no problem.

I am certainly not of a mind to go back to old grievances.

I would point out however that the grievances in this case are freshly laid out and not from bad memories. Most Greeks accept that Allied overreach at end of WW2 triggered the population exchanges, and Greece was part of that overreach. The flip side was what happened in 1915 prior to the Allied invasion of Turkey. Subsequently, the Istanbul pogrom and Cyprus caused more bad feelings.

But there's something really serious going on currently as well, and it dates back from 1922. Turkey entered a peace agreement it didn't like with the allies, and it ceded the Dodecanese and some Sporades islands to Italy. Italy, after its failed invasion of Greece, ceded these to Greece. Turkey has never been happy about that, and it maintains a casus belli against Greece. Turkey threatens war if Greece assumes its international rights in taking complete possession of these islands. Greece has offered to Turkey to take these grievances to international court, but the Turks do not like the initial treaty in the first place.

In other words, Turkey and Greece have a living treaty dispute which may be all the more dangerous because of constant talk of drilling for gas and oil in the disputed territory.

by Upstate NY on Wed Jun 9th, 2010 at 02:49:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most Greeks accept that Allied overreach at end of WW2

That would be WWI, right? Turkey wasn't a belligerent in WWII as far as I recall.

But there's something really serious going on currently as well, and it dates back from 1922. Turkey entered a peace agreement it didn't like with the allies, and it ceded the Dodecanese and some Sporades islands to Italy. Italy, after its failed invasion of Greece, ceded these to Greece. Turkey has never been happy about that, and it maintains a casus belli against Greece. Turkey threatens war if Greece assumes its international rights in taking complete possession of these islands. Greece has offered to Turkey to take these grievances to international court, but the Turks do not like the initial treaty in the first place.

In other words, Turkey and Greece have a living treaty dispute which may be all the more dangerous because of constant talk of drilling for gas and oil in the disputed territory.

Interesting. I didn't know that. Diary-worthy material, perhaps? Certainly, it would rattle some of the locally held prejudices hereabout vis-a-vis Turkey's mistreatment by the EU. And qualified prejudice-rattling can never be an entirely bad thing.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jun 9th, 2010 at 03:18:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, indeed, WW1.Sorry.

I can't do better than this wikipedia entry on the so-called "Aegean Issues:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_dispute

by Upstate NY on Thu Jun 10th, 2010 at 01:52:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
representing me.

In fact, a surprising amount of sense gets talked in the European parliament. Sadly, nobody listens, and it's all of very little consequence.

How about we take the power away from the blithering Barrosos and the evanescent Ashton Warners, and give it to our elected representatives?

That's a revolutionary idea!

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 at 03:07:36 AM EST


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