Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Greek election thread

by talos Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 07:18:19 AM EST

Today, as apparently half the world knows already, parliamentary elections are being held in Greece. This is the second such elections in a period of 40 days, after the results of the elections held on the 6th of May proved impossible to produce a working government alliance.

Again as most of the world knows by now, the two main rivals in these elections are the conservative New Democracy party and SYRIZA, the party of the Greek radical left which was the surprise winner of the May 6th vote that saw it propelled from 4,5% to 16,5% and second place ahead of the discredited socialists of PASOK. SYRIZA is a party that promises to renounce austerity and as such causes some form of disquiet across the ruling elites world-wide.

So it seems that the world's media have descended en masse in Athens and around Greece (the BBC's excellent Paul Mason has been climbing mountains and talking to cattle-ranchers) to an impressive extent. When Tsipras voted a few hours ago in a down-town polling center the whole area was innundated by international reporters and their crews

The Guardian has live coverage of events and is reliable. Athens News will be covering here election results as they become known.
Official results in English can be found at the Greek Ministry of Interior...

front-paged by afew


The latest polls (unpublished, leaked etc since there is a ban on publishing polls 15 days before the elections) seem to indicate that the race will be tight with a slight advantage to the Right. The electoral campaign was a mud-fest by ND, stooping to unprecedented lows to terrorize the population of the results of a potential SYRIZA victory. Reports say that outside of the big city centers and among the people who still have something to lose this scare tactic might have worked and has contained the SYRIZA vote. PASOK seems to be suffering losses. The Nazis seem to be holding on to their vote.

I note that Antonis Samaras has ran on a platform of xenophobia and law & order that would have embarrassed Marine Le Pen. He not only incorporated most cadres of the far-right LAOS party but has immersed himself in nationalist rhetoric and has used cold-war anti-communism to rally the ultra-right. At the same time it has included a large part of the neoliberals (notably Dora Bakoyianni who dissolved her party Dimikratiki Symmahia - at slightly under 3% in the previous elections) to rejoin the party she was disparaging until a few weeks ago.

There was also a wall of media aggressiveness against SYRIZA, almost comic in its uniformity. So that all during the past month almost everyone (politicians and journalists) was ganging up against the SYRIZA representative in TV talk-show panels.

Anyway: The elections are up for grabs. Remember that whoever wins even by a single vote, gets a 50 seat bonus (in a 300 seat parliament). I estimate that if a party reaches somewhere between 35-40% they will have an outright majority, though this is unlikely either way.

I'll be running around Athens most of the day, and away from my PC after 4 or 5 pm local time. But I will return later and I will try to see if I can find a way to keep in touch during the day...

Display:
On twitter follow #greece2012.

Also of note: Both FT Deutschland and Bild have written open letters to Greeks (in Greek!) urging them to vote for ND. The two open letters were paternalistic and insulting (especially the Bild article) and have created a furor here. This has obviously the reverse effect (outrage) and might even prove decisive if the vote is close, leading to the obvious question: what are they thinking? So yesterday's win against Russia that in all likelyhood has set up A Greece-Germany Quarter final, was greeted in Greek social media with the note: "tomorrow Germany", and the possibility of a Tsipras-Merkel first meeting on the 22d in the VIP stands of the game.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 06:32:34 AM EST
I corrected the Guardian link (you dublicated the Paul Mason link).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 11:33:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is another picture of Tsipras voting today. Unprecedented



The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 07:29:13 AM EST
Yanis Varoufakis, is pissed off with international media coverage of Greek elections and especially with the BBC: Message to the BBC and assorted international media on this Greek Election Day: Try to recover your journalistic principles even at the eleventh hour!

While legitimate questions can be asked as to which of the two programs of staying in the Eurozone is more apposite, this is not the way that the BBC and the rest are reporting them. Violating every journalistic standard and principle known to man or woman, they are insisting on a portrayal of an electoral tussle between pro-Euro and anti-Euro parties.

Moreover, a mindboggling inconsistency is running through their narrative. On the one hand, it is abundantly clear to them (and they actually let it be known that it is their view too) that the current EU policies of bailouts-plus-austerity are killing the Eurozone. Witness the brilliant cover in last week's Economist (featuring a sinking tanker with a bubble asking: "Can we switch on the engines now Mrs Merkel?"). On the other hand, however, in the same breath, they argue that failure by Greek voters to support this ruinous path may lead to the collapse of the... Eurozone. So, my message to BBC journalists and other reporters is simple. Decide folks: Either the present course is ruinous and Europe's peoples (including the Greeks) must abandon it. Or it is a decent policy mix which we ought to consent to. You cannot have it both ways, unless of course your only concern is how to alarm your audience via intentional disinformation while treating the Greek people like swine that need to be beaten into submission.



The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 07:49:20 AM EST
Syriza speaks for many of us who aren't Greek, too!

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 08:28:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I know! I've seen the messages of support and e-mails from all over the world, let alone Europe... Yesterday #VivaSyriza was trending on the Spanish tweetosphere...

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 08:44:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
THE.CAT SECRETLY SUPPORTS SYRIZA? « THE.CAT SUNDAY GREECE SPECIAL

Imagine Syriza wins. Then two things can happen. Greece remains in the euro. This would be a victory for Syriza because it would mean that a new deal was reached. The other possibility - and the reason why my head opposes Syriza! - is that Greece goes out of the euro. This would be like a tsunami for Greece but also for Europe and in fact for the planet! One Greece was out of the euro the Greek would find in such a terrible situation. They would have left the rest of the eurozone in total chaos so that no help would come from the eurozone or the European Union. Greel people would then find that the hard conditions of the bailout would have disappeared as they wanted but at the same time they would find themselves isolated and without money to run the country. It would be much much more terrible that the current situation!  And it would create almost a war inside Greece because Greek who had not voted for Syriza would get crazy that because of Syriza their country would be outside the euro.

So, you see my head clearly tells me that Syriza could mean total disaster for Greece and Europe.

But on the other hand, if Greece just do not show opposition to be ruled from Berlin as the markets want then I feel that my heart feels very angry. In some way I have the feeling as if the Greek people had been hijacked between Angela Merkel and Cristine Lagarde!

It is as  Greece was given the choice from Europe to choose only between drinking VINEGAR or dying of thirst! I almost have the feeling as if the Greek were asked to drink vinegar for having cheated Europe. And if they don't want vinegar then you let them die of thirst!

So, I must admit it, although me head does not support Syriza my heart understands Syriza.

In any case I think the real danger is that if today Syriza wins in Greece this could mean that in the future the far right could win in Germany. That is what makes me really afraid. Germany is not a perfect land and if peripheral Europe asks too much for German taxpayer then we may have the problem in Berlin.

one blogger articulates his/Europe's schizophrenia quite well.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 09:34:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I salute you!

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:41:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hear, Hear!

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 10:23:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ekathimerini.com | A moment of freedom

Much of this is to be expected as a result if the mess that Greece got itself into and the unprecedented loan packages that it has received. But the line must be drawn somewhere. These loans come with extreme conditionality. Just as Greeks' personal lives are pored over, so the bailouts dictate not just economic policy but a whole range of other policies down to the finest details. This is the quid pro quo of the loan deals: Greece receives money in return for certain fiscal measures and structural reforms. Nowhere does the agreement dictate how people should vote in a free election.

This hasn't prevented a number of European officials from expressing an opinion about their preferred outcome of Sunday's vote. The latest to do so was Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker. «If the radical left wins - which cannot be ruled out - the consequences for the currency union are unforeseeable,» said Juncker, who as head of the Eurogroup also holds an institutional role within the European Union, a role that - theoretically - implies neutrality on such sensitive issues as national elections.

Juncker's comment is in keeping with repeated interventions by Europeans over the last month. Their comments implied a deep disapproval of potential choices by free citizens. This began in February when German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble made the incredible suggestion that Greece should hold off elections and allow the interim government led by Lucas Papademos to stay in power for longer. This revealed a Europe that has become scared of democracy, unable to deal with the uncomfortable realities that it can produce.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 11:40:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]


'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 09:37:05 AM EST
There are unconfirmed rumors flying around that ND was ahead at +2% around 2pm. However since this is the time bracket in which all the elder voters go to polls and a wave of younger voters back from the beaches was expected, it seems to be too close to call. Again this is not official...

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 10:01:52 AM EST
Greek elections: Greece returns to the polls - live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk

4.37pm: It looks like the answer to the question I posed in the previous update (will there be a last minute surge in voting?) is "yes".

amalia negreponti @aliama

#greece sudden rush to polling stations in the past hour:ages 25-40,probably Syriza voters. 17 Jun 12

yannis moutsos @yannismoutsos

Voting really picking up here in Corinth. Ppl of all ages. Queues spilling onto pavement. #rbnews #Greece2012



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 11:54:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I note the server of Athens News apparently collapsed under the load...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 11:55:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Greek elections: Greece returns to the polls - live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk

5.01pm: The polls have closed. Exit polls make it too close to call

Efthimia Efthimiou @EfiEfthimiou

#Greece 2012 Megatv poll: ND 27.5-30.5 Syriza 27.30 Pasok 10-12 IndGreeks 6-7.5 17 Jun 12

Kathimerini English @ekathimerini

First exit poll by Star Channel: ND 27-30, SYRIZA 26-29, PASOK 10-12, Ind Greeks 6-8, Golden Dawn 6-8, Dem Left 6-7, KKE 5-6 #Greece2012



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 12:04:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Greek elections: Greece returns to the polls - live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk

5.05pm: Here's results of another poll, which puts the margin between the two frontrunners at just 0.5%.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 12:14:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yet another poll by VPRC (which was the company that predicted the actual result better than all the rest in May) has ND and SYRIZA tied at 29,5, PASOK 10, AnEl  7, DIMAR 6, KKE 5,5, Nazis 6, Coalition of Neolibs 2,5, Greens at 1%. It will be a long night

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 12:25:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tomorrow i will buy a bottle of Ouzo if Syriza wins.
by kjr63 on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 12:32:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Greek elections: Greece returns to the polls - live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk

#Greece Pollster Stratos Fanaras saying a part of voters-mainly younger people who came to vote in last 2hrs-refused to answer to exit polls

-- amalia negreponti (@aliama) June 17, 2012

Question is, did the pollsters attempt to correct for that.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 12:35:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They probably found 1 old person for every two youngun's that refused.
All solutions of lately seem to follow this kind of logic.
by Euroliberal on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 12:56:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
HA!

Good for them.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 12:57:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is it: Exit-poll leaks from blogs and sites:ND 29,2 SYRIZA 27,9 PASOK 10 DIMAR 6,3 IND GREEKS 5,4 GCP 5,3 GDAWN 5

But again this is around 1-3 pm. This is not a final estimate

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 10:10:56 AM EST
Even if these numbers hold, you do know that Syriza wins. IMO there is no result resembling these numbers that can be considered a defeat for Syriza and a win for the other side. Merkel has to yield either way and Europe will benefit from that.
by Euroliberal on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 10:35:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hopefully Syriza can manage a 1.5% bump and eke out a straight win.
by Upstate NY on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 10:51:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Would either ND or Syriza be able to form a government with these numbers?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 10:59:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The percentages add up to 90% so add an additional 10%. You get a 33% seat allocation for the first party, so 130-135 seats with the first-place 50-seat bonus, out of 300.

So, no.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 11:11:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't think so, but wasn't sure if there had been signals across parties on willingness to form a coalition.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 11:20:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reset back to zero & repeat?

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:00:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Am I the only one who thinks of the Weimar Republic?
by Katrin on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:14:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They had three elections in 1989-90, too.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:30:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I do too.  

But, IMO, the Weimar Republic and the current Greek government became failed states for different reasons, with different trajectories.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:40:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The fundamental reason is surprisingly similar: A failed defense of the gold standard, odious hard-currency obligations and foreign occupation and dismantling of core industries.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:45:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
World War One, the defeat of Imperial Germany, and the vindictiveness of the Entente Powers were more direct causes of Weimar Republic becoming a failed state.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:29:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Were they? If you look at electoral results through the '20s, they were pretty consistent with a normal European state at the time. Shit only really hit the fan after 1930.

Yes, the militarization of society and the fact that large parts of the imperial bureaucracy had never quite accepted democracy did not help. But all of those have parallels in contemporary Greece: You have a clientilist two-party system that is prepared to court nazis to remain in power, an increasingly brutalized and politicized police force, and a Germany which is if anything far more vindictive and arrogant in its behaviour than the entente ever was.

As far as I can tell, the main difference is that Greece does not have the industrial or military capacity to pursue the sort of externally-directed revanchism that Germany did. Domestically, OTOH, things can get quite bad.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 05:20:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. The situation of the gridlock--a deep divide-- favours authoritarian methods out. Elections every few weeks won't change the situation after all.
by Katrin on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 05:50:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If people want to suffer less (long-term) there is, as I see it, only one reasonable option: emigration. Of course, this option might shut in the medium term. This is especially true if you are young and un(der)-employed: it is pretty clear that groups that still have some form of rent are not going to give it up easily and people that are out of the system (the aforementioned young) are already shut of most benefits of a modern western society. So: run away, while the borders are still open... If you have people you care that stay behind, remit them something from outside.

It is difficult not to see Greece (or Portugal) not to become a failed state in the medium run. People should prepare accordingly (in individual/family terms, I mean).

by cagatacos on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 05:57:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Very, very true.
Last year Germany anounced that it desperately needed 300,000 higly qualified immigrants mainly engineers. The profligate, lazy southeners from Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal were the target pool.
I don't have the data from Portugal yet but 20,000 Greeks made the move so far.

Brain drain does wonders I guess.

by Euroliberal on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 04:06:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Greek DNA will infect their enterprise with laziness. This is a trojan horse.
by Upstate NY on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 09:30:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but there is a scary lot of parallels too.
by Katrin on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:52:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And a ton of differences, as well, which does change the likely outcome.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:38:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
H. Brünig applied economic theories of Hayek.
by PerCLupi on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 03:01:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If they repeat this again, that is also a decision.
by oliver on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:44:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Twitter / damomac: Polling station, Corinth:
Polling station, Corinth: ‪#GoldenDawn muscle men in quasi-uniform at school gates. Intimidation in itself. Next to melon seller. ‪#greece2012


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:46:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And I do too.
by PerCLupi on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:51:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Twitter / paulmasonnews: Syriza 30, ND 30.5 says Gr
Syriza 30, ND 30.5 says Greek TV official exit poll.


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 12:32:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
With PASOK getting 25-30 seats, ND + PASOK have a majority.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:32:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One of the keys if they do form a gov't: how will they pass the new austerity measures being demanded?

They can't pass them. Greece will be locking heads with Germany regardless.

by Upstate NY on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:09:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Faisal Islam (faisalislam) on Twitter
Next exit poll in two minutes...

Then

Faisal Islam (faisalislam) on Twitter

Sorry those 2nd exit polls have now been delayed... There's talk of the results too being late. Gonna be a long night. ND ahead tho


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:35:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Twitter / jamesmatesitv: Skai TV gives first seat p
Skai TV gives first seat projections from their exit polls: Syriza 28% 124 seats, ND, 27.5% 73 seats, Pasok 13% 33 seats. I


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:31:25 PM EST
Somehow their exit polls swung from 0.5 point ND advantage to 0.5 point SYRIZA advantage.

Meanwhile, the state of the actual count is 19.98%. ND at 30.95%, SYRIZA at 25.50%. In the May elections, SYRIZA moved up as the count progressed.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:49:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Counted: 28,13%

ND 30,71%
Syriza 25,70%
Pasok 13,14%
etc

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:14:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Counted: 34,09

ND 30,61
Syriza 25,87
Pasok 12,96
etc

There is a weak trend, but nothing to hang a victory on. If it continues as these few updates indicated we are talking ND 29-30, Syriza 28. Guess the trend might not be linear through the counting though.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:40:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Counted: 37.47%

ND 30.53%
Syriza 25.99%
Pasok 12.87%
Independent Greeks 7.41%
Golden Dawn 6.95%
Democratic Left 6.01%
KKE 4.43%

The rest below the 3% limit.

Percentages move too slowly for me to hope for a closing of the currently 4.5-point gap... the Guardian is already talking about a "moral" victory for SYRIZA.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:43:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Syriza won't close the gap:

Counted: 83.85%
Turnout: 61.75%

ND 29.98%
Syriza 26.63%
Pasok 12.46%
Independent Greeks 7.47%
Golden Dawn 6.93%
Democratic Left 6.10%
KKE 4.50%

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 05:13:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So, coalition poker:

Quisling coalition: ND+Pasok+DemLeft ~ 49 % of the vote, ~ 58 % of the seats.

Far-right coalition: ND+IG+Nazis ~ 45 % of the vote, ~ 54 % of the seats.

Joy.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 05:49:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm surprised how low the turnout is.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 05:50:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is one of the sad effects that crises have on people. And one of the tragical consequences is that tends to give right wing parties more power with a cover of democracy, while in fact they don't care about people.

res hum m's ali
by Antoni Jaume on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 06:03:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wonder whether election fatigue is setting in.

Looking at the numbers between May and today on the ministry of elections website, it looks like there are three groups of big losers:

  1. There's a shakeup in the challenger parties, with support filing out of those that didn't make the threshold in May. Ecologists Greens and LaOS support was cut in half.  Most likely these went to Syriza and Golden Dawn respectively.

  2. Independent Greeks and PASOK down marginally, but an oversized impact in the number of seats.

  3. Finally, it looks like KKE is collapsing, down 46% since May.  With Syriza in play is KKE set to be pushed below the threshold in future elections?  If there is another failure to form a government, and Greece is forced out of the euro, one of the principal differences between Syriza and KKE evaporates.


And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 06:12:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LAOS broke in half and one half went to ND (see talos upthread). The Nazis stayed level.

Turnout seems to be only about 2.7 percentage points lower than in May (which was 5.92 percentage points below 2009), but I expected it to increase.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 06:21:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm having a hard time seeing how any stable government is going to form from this mess.

151 seats is a majority.  

With 97% of the vote in:

New Democracy    129
Syriza           71
Pasok            33
Ind. Greeks      20
Golden Dawn      18
Democratic Left  17
KKE              12

So grand coalition (New Democracy+PASOK) yields 162 seats.  But, will Venizelos do this again?  Will PASOK splinter if he does?

So coalitions of the right.  New Democracy + Independent Greeks=149 seats.  Another partner is needed.  Will the Democratic Left join?  Or will New Democracy openly recruit Nazis into their government.

On the Left, or anti-austerity. Even a "dream team" of Syriza+PASOK+Democratic Left only yields 121 sets. Either Independent Greeks or KKE alone don't make a majority. Together they only give 153 seats.  A bare majority.

A grand coalition is the only workable government, and that seems like an open question.  So are we on to round three?

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 06:42:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My prediction: ND+Pasok, and Democratic Left will fold into it when it becomes clear that the Quisling coalition has the seats.

That will wipe out Pasok and Dem.Left in the next elections, but Pasok's parliamentarians are presumably down to the totally soulless apparatchiks and thoroughly corrupt clientilists, so they should be reasonably safe from defection during their term. Dem.Left is fishier - they're the venal opportunist wing of Pasok, so I would not bet money on them staying the course in any government, left right or center.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 06:52:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From past rhetoric, I wouldn't expect New Democracy + Independent Greeks. The latter are attacking ND just like SYRIZA, with the sovereignity angle added. DIMAR, which expressed willingness to be part in any future coalition, would be more likely to go along with them...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 01:46:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is an artifact of bad book-keeping and immigration. Real turnout is at ~72-75%. From what I hear some significant part of the younger generation preferred the beach from the poll booths today.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 06:48:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Any opinion on whether PASOK will do a national unity government with Syriza?

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 06:53:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You mean without ND? Impossible.

SYRIZA has pre-empted any questions by stating that its sole aim is to try to be a great Official Opposition, thank you very much.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 07:13:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, I was wondering if you thought PASOK would join a coalition with ND if SYRIZA didn't?

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 08:13:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
SYRIZA will most definitely not join a coalition with ND. PASOK will. They're playing hard-to-get at this point but they will at least give them a confidence vote at the parliament. In which case DIMAR might do likewise

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 08:22:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In the campaign, Venizelos didn't tire telling that any future government should include SYRIZA. To me this implies some long-term thinking (longer than a month): a fear of losing even more voters.

Then again, now an implosion of SYRIZA is an option, too...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 01:48:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So ND can't form a government with PASOK, and PASOK won't form a government without SYRIZA.

Will a third round of elections really change anything?  

Can things really wait another month?  Or, will this only exacerbate current shortages at hospitals and the like?   And, at what point does the troika begin to erect a financial cordon around the country?

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 02:53:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not 100% certain that Venizelos's pre-election insistence on including SYRIZA in the government will hold up after the elections. My most pessimistic scenario is that SYRIZA's failure to beat ND will turn its newest voters off and poll number erosion will set in, giving PASOK leaders a hope of re-gaining ground in spite of participation in a doomed pro-austerity government that has a substantial anti-austerity opposition. (But voters leaving SYRIZA could actually swing to the Nazis instead.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 03:33:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Standards of living will continue deteriorating, so that will not help the parties that will participate in the government. All of them also promised substantial renegotiation of the memoranda. This will not happen, although they might get a bone or two from the creditors.

PASOK will obviously participate in an ND-led government, and so will DIMAR probably. Otherwise they will lead the country to a third election and that threat was one of the accusations leveled against SYRIZA in the campaign period - that if it wins no-one will work with them and thus they will force the country to a third election.

SYRIZA's newest voters are unlikely to be budge in the short term as long as one of the things that unite them still is in place: austerity. The hatred of the ND/PASOK corruption will in all likelyhood be rekindled every few days or so. But in the long term the only thing that unites these voters is the person of Alexis Tsipras. This is very uncomfortable for a political space which frowned upon "leader-worship". So in the coming few months SYRIZA in its new extent will try to organize itself into something more coherent...

But PASOK is dead and ND scored its lowest percentage ever despite the campaign of fear and the near-total (and near-totalitarian) support it had from the MSM. The Nazis have not reached their possible maximum yet. Note that social reaction to this disaster has been limited these past few months as people were waiting to see what would come out of the elections... I don't think this moratorium will be in place for long... And I expect a strong and violent reaction to the Nazis continued murderous attacks against immigrants and leftists. Since the media will spin this in a "battle of extremisms" narrative, this can easily get out of hand...

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 06:17:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That went fast.

Live news blog, June 18 | Athens News

9.39pm To wrap up today's events,  the parties that broadly back the country's international bailout will agree to form a coalition government on Tuesday, a senior official with New Democracy party told Reuters on Monday.   "We are going to clinch a deal tomorrow, we will form a government," the official, who declined to be named, said.   The official said that Pasok party would appoint members in the next cabinet and also expressed hope that the Democratic Left, would take part.

These two sickos aren't bad guys from a James Bond parody, but hold the future of Greece:



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 05:24:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Nazis have not reached their possible maximum yet.

Indeed. Our media elites are scaremongering about SYRIZA while such things happen now with a regularity:

Live news blog, June 18 | Athens News

4.42pm Golden Dawn "celebrated" their consolidating election performance yesterday with another attack on an immigrant. A Pakistani national was stabbed last night at Attiki train station. According to Vima, the attack took place at around 23.30, with eye witnesses, confirming the assault and the fact that the attackers were Golden Dawn supporters.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 05:29:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, things can wait another month. The EU will get really impatient but Greece is better off without a government than with a bad government. Tax collection has been suspended during the election prior to buy votes for the Troika, so people are doing a little better. The humanitarian catastrophe keeps advancing, but forming a pro-Troika government wouldn't have improved that.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 04:55:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
during the election priorperiod, that is.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 06:26:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do I sense a touch of cynism in that "Official Opposition" remark? If so, do you think SYRIZA shoud have done something else?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 01:44:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
NO, don't take it like that.

In multi-party systems, being the second voted party gives you that official designation.
Greeks call it "Official" because it's the party from the opposition that sets the tone with an actual chance of being an alternative to govern.

by Euroliberal on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 04:17:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, well.  Guess all that austerity hasn't been austere enough to impact "some significant part of the younger generation."  The banksters are happy tonight.  
by Marie2 on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 07:15:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It has impacted a lot of people to the point of total cynicism and resignation. Until a few months ago they were much more than they are today

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 08:24:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe their resignation is the correct response and nothing matters.  But unlike Americans and Egyptians, they weren't limited to choosing between economic rightwing and religio-economic rightwing.  Next time they aren't likely to be so fortunate.    
by Marie2 on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 10:11:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is an artifact of bad book-keeping and immigration

Could you say more on this? How are voters registered? Isn't there a differentiation between foreign residents and citizens?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 01:42:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well dead people are not removed from the registers. There is a graph which I ca't find now that shows that the 70+ category in the electoral register is not only the largest but also larger than the 40-70 combined! My father (who died in 1997) and my uncle (who died in 1990) are still in the registers.

Add to that the fact that there are people in the registers who have emmigrated from Greece in the 50s-70s who are for all practical purposes foreign nationals but who still retain their citizenship and thus the right to vote. I made a brief calculation a few years ago using the available census data and I estimated that the actual people >18 living in Greece and having a right to vote is ~8,5 million

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 05:15:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do the dead vote in large numbers?

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 07:11:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh, no. Not lately. That's how the abstention rate shoots up ;-)

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 07:54:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On reflection and after the fact I'm not. They convinced enough people that the Left wouldn't be able to fix anything. They didn't convince them that the old system still had any legitimacy left.
by generic on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 06:56:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Live news blog, June 18 | Athens News
The prefectures recording the lowest turnout were:
Florina 61%
Kefalonia 56.78%
Lakonia 55.89%
Evrytania 53.65%
Lesvos 54.43%

Why didn't people bother to vote. One of the explanations being put forward is that many people living in large cities but registered in ancestral villages didn't have the money to return home to vote. That would go in some way to explaining the low turnout in northerly Florina, which is on the border with Fyrom, and the islands of Kefalonia and Lesvos.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 04:35:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The "not enough money angle" is valid: SYRIZA tried with limited resources to overcome this by organizing car-pooling and cheaper hiring rates for buses. The prefectures listed above all have large numbers of people who have immigrated (see previous comment) in earlier decades. I just checked to see the official turnout in the 2007 elections and it was 52% in Lakonia 51% in Florina 52% in Kefalonia (it was 63% in 2000). In 2007 total official turnout in the whole country was at 74%. Now it is at 62,5%. So in these prefectures, relatively speaking, participation has increased considerably...

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 05:37:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't even imagine driving to my ancestral villages in Evrytania from Athens in order to vote. I get white knuckles just thinking about that road trip.

High mountain road and single lane passes of the sort I experienced in Italy, Spain and Greece scare the crap out of me.

by Upstate NY on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 09:37:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
North Americans are cowards. It used to be great fun to watch our Toronto cousins trying to drive - or, even better, sit as front seat passengers - on one and a half lane rural Irish roads.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 09:44:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Scotland is like that too. One great feature of these roads for Americans is that after a while you forget that you're supposed to be driving on the other side of this one lane....
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 10:09:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
that's why I liked the back seat in Grenadian private minivan buses going between Grenville and St. George.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 03:01:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You should try China. I made a trip in the mountains just north of Beijing two months ago. The roads are actually top-notch with lots of safety railings and so on. The problem is the drivers who are all-out insane... and the fact that they have actively sabotaged(!!!) all the safety belts so you can't put them on!

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 05:06:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Turnout 62.47%
ND 29.66% (129 seats)
Syriza 26.89% (71 seats)
Pasok 12.28% (33 seats)
Independent Greeks 7.51% (20 seats)
Golden Dawn 6.92% (18 seats)
Democratic Left 6.26% (17 seats)
KKE 4.50% (12 seats)
Recreate Greece!+Drasi 1.59%
LAOS 1.58%
Greens 0.88%
I Don't Pay Movement 0.39%
ANTARSYA 0.33%
...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 03:41:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Twitter / DouthatNYT: Telling exit poll stat: Sy

Telling exit poll stat: Syriza leads among 18-34s AND 35-54s. If center-right wins, will be entirely due to seniors: http://bit.ly/IxZZbb



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:39:18 PM EST
The official ministry of interior projections are now 29,6 to 27,1 for ND. ND can form a government with PASOK, but tonight on TV PASO is playing hard to get.

At SYRIZA headquarters people are dissapointed but not depressed. It seems that the campaign of fear was effective especially among the older and the not despairing. PASOK is holding at -1%. The nazis are at the same levels...

I expect that this gvt will fall within months. But what they will leave behind I'm afraid is a total social and economic disaster

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:39:57 PM EST
This gov't may fail even sooner than a few months.

Merkel and the troika have demanded that Greece stick to the memo with new austerity measures.

161 seats?

How on earth is a majority of 11 going to pass new austerity measures?

We may see Europe pull the plug on Greece pretty quickly.

by Upstate NY on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:46:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dora Bakoyianni was the difference.
by Upstate NY on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 03:13:19 PM EST
But is she still?
by PerCLupi on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 03:23:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
@aliama
#greece2012‬ Pasok sources saying Hollande phoned Venizelos to "congratulate him on managing to keep socialists percent from falling further"


If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 06:21:43 PM EST
Pray tell me that this is perfunctory congratulations because their respective parties both belong to the same European party.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 12:36:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Press Watch, June 18 | Athens News
"Government immediately!" proclaimed Ta Nea's headline, adding that the hour of responsibility has arrived for party leaders. The paper saw the result as a mandate for a broad-based coalition. "Merkel-Hollande: the nighttime telephone calls to Samaras, Venizelos" read another title. The report said that Merkel called Samaras and Hollande called Venizelos, to pressure them to form a government immediately.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 09:04:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As for re-negotiation of bailout terms, fugghetit.

Live news blog, June 18 | Athens News

1.40pm After two leading German politicians called for some easing of the deadlines for Greece to meet its memorandum targets (see 10.15am), a government spokesman has said that Germany does not believe the time is right for granting Greece any leeway or additional time on its reform commitments.

"It's decisive now for the troika to be convinced that Greece will stick to its agreements and fully implement the agreed reforms. Now is not the time for any kind of discounts to Greece," said deputy government spokesman Georg Streiter. Asked about whether there was any room for giving Greece extra time to meet its reform targets, as suggested by German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle earlier on Monday, Streiter said: "We stand by what has been agreed."



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 09:05:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Truly a Marie-Antoinette moment, of the kind of 'let them eat cake'. The greek cannot afford the bread of their needs but they must pay the cake of the debt.

res hum m's ali
by Antoni Jaume on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 03:20:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Then again, over 44% of Greek voters managed to vote for parties that signed off "what has been agreed" and give them majority, with the main one promising re-negotiation, a promise that should have been seen as being without any credibility.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 05:12:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Georg Streiter is a scumbag and the people he spoke for are slime.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 03:36:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Greece has several nationwide ministers who preside over prefectures. This is one of the elected under SYRIZA:

http://www.theworld.org/2011/10/village-greek-success-story/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yraCtUo9N6E

Although a mountain village surely isn't Athens, I think his method of problem-solving can play rather well on a national stage. Just stick to the basics: "I'm not shady," and don't always ask, "What's in it for me?"

by Upstate NY on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 01:37:30 PM EST
Small Mountain Village is a Greek Success Story | PRI's The World

Tsoukalas also got EU money to develop green energy projects for the town, including an "ecological park." He said the village's future might be environmental tourism.

He also built a small soccer stadium, a museum and a library -- all for a town of roughly 500 people.

According to critics, Tsoukalas has milked the EU system for projects that the town doesn't need

Or to put it another way, he found creative ways to make the EU send the money back to Greece. If soccer stadiums is what the system will fund, then that is what the periphery must build.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 03:03:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He describes building wind parks that not only created free electricity for all residents (other than 30% of the cost of the farm is charged to the municipality) but enough electricity for 15000 homes is created and then sold, creating income.

Furthermore, there are tens of thousands of animals in the village (pigs, cows, sheep). The town used to receive power for heat in the winter months from lignite and coal factories. Now, they have a biomass generator where they use both compost and animal feces to heat all homes in winter. I'm not sure how clean the new energy source is, but surely steam from biomass must be cleaner than lignite.

by Upstate NY on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 03:18:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How clean the energy is depends on how the stuff is collected, transported, and the power plant's equipment and procedures.  The EROEI on the first two is a wash or positive it's the second where the a large "profit" is taken.  One thing to note is a properly run and managed farm is a net nitrogen contributor to the soil.  Once a proper balance is reached there is more animal waste produced than can be properly used and the excess not only can be used for power production it should be used for power production.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 03:34:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The link to the Paul Mason piece is about Anavra and how they are turning to SYRIZA. The mayor, I'm not sure what party he's from, but we will need more people like him all around the country when a progressive government finally takes power

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 03:35:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting about Mason. But the mayor, he's Syriza, and not only Syriza, but one of their newly elected statewide MPs.

From Athens News: "10.50am Pasok spokesperson Fofi Gennimata will not be among the 33 socialist MPs returning to parliament. Gennimata, who was second on the Pasok's list of state-wide candidates, narrowly missed out when the final results gave her party only one state-wide MP. The state-wide deputies are elected proportionally in accordance with party percentages.

New Democracy won four state-wide deputies: Dora Bakoyannis, Haralambos Athanasiou, Chrysanthos Lazaridis and Yiannis Michelakis.

Syriza took three: Manolis Glezos, Theano Fotiou and Dimitris Tsoukalas.

All the other parties took one state-wide deputy each: former Olympics weightlifting medallist Pyrros Dimas (Pasok), Terence Quick (Independent Greeks), Christos Pappas (Golden Dawn), Spyros Lykoudis (Democratic Left) and Thanasis Pafilis (KKE)."

by Upstate NY on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 03:48:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Different Dimitris Tsoukalas (fairly common surname + very common first name)! The SYRIZA statewide MP is a former bank unionist. Compare with the mayor...

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 03:58:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Argh, when I Googled him, the mayor dominated the listings. What an embarrassing mistake.
by Upstate NY on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 04:24:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No euros? No problem | Athens News
VOLOS: Last month, Eleni, a struggling cafe owner from Rafina, a port town about 40 minutes outside Athens, underwent lifesaving surgery for an ovarian tumour.

Unable to pay for the operation, the 51-year-old mother of two proposed to settle the bill with 17 rabbits.

...While the country's future in the eurozone is more uncertain than ever, Volos, at the foot of Mt Pelion, is already turning away from the euro. This seaside community is side-stepping the crisis with its own alternative local currency - TEM (topiki enallaktiki monada). It is a rapidly-swelling social network that is breathing hope and dignity back into many embattled families.

It is, in effect, a highly-organised barter economy, where members sign up online to access a database and to activate their own TEM account, which starts at zero. They then take payment for their goods and services in TEMs and use the units accrued to buy goods and services from other members. The currency, which began actively functioning in mid-2010, is also backed by a voucher system resembling a chequebook.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jun 19th, 2012 at 04:00:28 AM EST


Display:
Go to: [ European Tribune Homepage : Top of page : Top of comments ]