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What did really happen at the big meeting about Cyprus?

by A swedish kind of death Mon Mar 25th, 2013 at 04:41:29 PM EST

Saturday the 16th of March, the first Cyrprus bail-in was announced. Since then accounts has differed on what really happened, and whose fault the results were. I figured we can collaborate in creating a record, since actual minute meetings apparently does not exist at this refined a level in politics.

At this blog we have together a large span of languages and I suppose most finance ministers must have commented the news in their home press. Collecting the pieces can be interesting and above all practical in the discussions about how the whole structure works.

What we want to know is who pushed what, who held which position in the negotiations that evidently took place. To get some structure here collect the comments about each meeting delegate (eurostate or troika component) regardless of if their position is self described or described by someone else.


To get rid of the clutter, primarily we want named sources and secondarily articles that at least quote some unnamed source (yes, those can be valid leaks or lies, we don't know). Later narratives does not add much.

Display:
What did really happen at the big meeting about Cyprus? | 28 comments (28 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Germany (none / 0)
Collect the comments on how Germany acted here.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Mon Mar 25th, 2013 at 04:42:04 PM EST
Re: Germany (none / 1)
Schäuble on Germany's position:

Germany would have protected insured deposits: Schaeuble | Reuters

"It was the position of the German government and the International Monetary Fund that we must get a considerable part of the funds that are necessary for restructuring the banks from the banks owners and creditors - that means the investors," German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble told public broadcaster ARD in an interview.

"But we would obviously have respected the deposit guarantee for accounts up to 100,000," he said.



Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Mon Mar 25th, 2013 at 04:43:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Germany (none / 1)
Chypre est sauvée, mais la Troïka a du plomb dans l'aile - francetv info Cyprus is saved, but the Troika is in a bad way - francetv info
Même atmosphère à Berlin, où chacun semble vouloir renvoyer à son prochain la responsabilité de la taxe honnie : le ministre des Finances allemand, Wolfgang Schäuble, rejette la responsabilité de la taxation des petits épargnants sur le gouvernement chypriote et la BCE. Jörg Asmussen, membre du conseil exécutif de l'institution et son représentant dans les négociations, rétorque que "ce n'est pas la BCE qui a poussé" pour cette option...Same atmosphere in Berlin, where everyone seems to want to pass on to his neighbour the responsibility for the scorned tax: the German finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble, blames the taxation of small investors on the Cypriot government and the ECB. Jörg Asmussen, a member of the executive board of the institution and its representative in the negotiations, replies that "it is not the ECB which pushed" for this option ...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 25th, 2013 at 05:07:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Germany (none / 1)
Ekathimerini after the Reuters Summit on the future of the eurozone in February.

ekathimerini.com | No broad 'bail-in' for Cyprus depositors, ECB says

Germany, Finland and some other eurozone countries are pushing for bank depositors and other investors in Cyprus to carry some of costs of a bailout, both to shield their taxpayers and because of suspicions that wealthy Russians and others have used the island to stash possibly illicit funds.


Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Tue Mar 26th, 2013 at 08:48:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ECB (none / 0)
Comments on how ECB acted.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Mon Mar 25th, 2013 at 04:44:01 PM EST
Re: ECB (none / 0)
Scäuble on ECB.

Germany would have protected insured deposits: Schaeuble | Reuters

"But those who did not want a bail-in were the Cypriot government, also the European Commission and the ECB, they decided on this solution and they now must explain this to the Cypriot people."


Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Mon Mar 25th, 2013 at 04:44:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: ECB (none / 1)
Ekathimerini after the Reuters Summit on the future of the eurozone in February.

ekathimerini.com | No broad 'bail-in' for Cyprus depositors, ECB says

Depositors in Cypriot banks should not be forced to take losses across the board as part of a eurozone rescue of Cyprus, ECB policymaker Benoit Coeure said, but he did not rule out making the biggest depositors share some of the burden.


Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Tue Mar 26th, 2013 at 08:50:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
European Commission (none / 0)
European Commission comments goes here.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Mon Mar 25th, 2013 at 04:45:35 PM EST
Re: European Commission (none / 0)
Schäuble on EC:

Germany would have protected insured deposits: Schaeuble | Reuters

"But those who did not want a bail-in were the Cypriot government, also the European Commission and the ECB, they decided on this solution and they now must explain this to the Cypriot people."


Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Mon Mar 25th, 2013 at 04:46:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: European Commission (none / 0)
Cypriot government on the EC's position:

Government denies that Cyprus President dismissed exclusion of deposits under 100,000 euros


Cyprus’ lenders, according to Stylianides, asked during the last Eurogroup meeting the closure of two major Cypriot banks, the transfer of deposits up to 100,000 euros to a “good bank” and the clearance of the rest of the deposits.

The Government Spokesman also added that the IMF estimated that these deposits would lose 40% of their deposits, while remaining frozen for 5-10 years. He went on by saying that the European Commission said the total loss would be much bigger, with catastrophic results for the whole economy.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Mar 27th, 2013 at 07:53:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Draghi on Commission (4.00 / 2)
Draghi slams handling of Cyprus bailout | EurActiv

Draghi said depositors with guarantees should be sacrosanct, but that it was best not to touch any depositors if possible.

"You have a pecking order, ideally insured depositors should be the very last category to be touched. The (European) Commission draft directive (on banking) foresees exactly this.

"There isn't actually a specific distinction between categories of bondholders and uninsured depositors in the draft directive. But basically the point is that you, if you can, don't touch uninsured depositors," Draghi said.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Apr 5th, 2013 at 01:38:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cyprus (none / 0)
Comment on Cyprus position goes here.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Mon Mar 25th, 2013 at 04:46:27 PM EST
Re: Cyprus (none / 0)
Schäuble on Cyprus:

Germany would have protected insured deposits: Schaeuble | Reuters

"But those who did not want a bail-in were the Cypriot government, also the European Commission and the ECB, they decided on this solution and they now must explain this to the Cypriot people."


Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Mon Mar 25th, 2013 at 04:46:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Cyprus (none / 0)
Anastasiades on Cyprus:

Press and Information Office - Press Releases

we faced decisions that had already been taken and came across faits accomplis


Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Mon Mar 25th, 2013 at 04:48:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Cyprus (none / 0)
Government denies that Cyprus President dismissed exclusion of deposits under 100,000 euros
Cyprus President Nicos Anastasiades categorically denies reports saying that he dismissed a proposal to exclude deposits under 100,000 euros from an one-off tax, decided by the Eurogroup last Saturday, in the framework of a bailout agreement for Cyprus.

...In a written statement, Stylianides says that President Anastasiades fought to avert this “unprecedented development”, which he adds “has been imposed in a coercive manner by those who try today to justify their own decisions”.

Their position, he went on, was that the non-inclusion of depositors with savings up to 100,000 euros would not secure the necessary bailout sum.

Cyprus’ lenders, according to Stylianides, asked during the last Eurogroup meeting the closure of two major Cypriot banks, the transfer of deposits up to 100,000 euros to a “good bank” and the clearance of the rest of the deposits.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Mar 27th, 2013 at 07:52:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Cyprus on Cyprus (none / 1)
The Economist: What happened in Cyprus (March 28th 2013)
Though Cyprus only hit the front pages in the last month, its crisis has been years in the making. Athanasios Orphanides was governor of the Central Bank of Cyprus from 2007 to 2012, giving him a seat on the European Central Bank's governing council and oversight of Cyprus' banks. In an interview with The Economist, Mr Orphanides gives his views on how the crisis came about: exposure to Greece and the global financial crisis; decisions by the former communist government (with whom Mr Orphanides had a strained relationship); and flawed decisions by Europe's governments. Mr Orphanides was raised in Cyprus, received his PhD in economics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and was an adviser at the Federal Reserve Board. He is now a lecturer at MIT and a fellow at the Center for Financial Studies at the Goethe University of Frankfurt. The following is an edited transcript of the interview, conducted over the telephone and in writing in the last week.


guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 28th, 2013 at 02:55:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Cyprus on Cyprus (none / 0)
Migeru:
Mr Orphanides gives his views on how the crisis came about: exposure to Greece and the global financial crisis;

they used to worry about commie dominos, my oh my.

little did they know...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Mar 28th, 2013 at 03:29:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Cyprus on Cyprus (4.00 / 2)
Shorter Orphanides: it's all the fault of the communist for not accepting austerity earlier... until the elections; and all the fault of the German SPD after. Well, to be fair, there are lots of interesting background details in the article, but political biases shine through – I wonder how the communists react.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Mar 28th, 2013 at 03:38:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Draghi on Cyprus (4.00 / 2)
Draghi slams handling of Cyprus bailout | EurActiv

But Draghi he was also scathing about Cyprus's initial plan to impose a levy on insured as well as uninsured bank depositors.

"That was not smart, to say the least, and was quickly corrected (by euro zone finance ministers)," he said.

Draghi said the finance ministers and the International Monetary Fund had wanted Cyprus to help pay for its €10 billion with a levy on wealthy depositors only.

Cyprus, however, had initially also sought to charge those with €100.000 or less even though they had a bank deposit guarantee. The move triggered a wave of concern in financial markets, fearing that investors elsewhere would be unnerved and start a bank run.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Apr 5th, 2013 at 01:37:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
France (4.00 / 2)
Chypre est sauvée, mais la Troïka a du plomb dans l'aile - francetv info Cyprus is saved, but the Troika is in a bad way - francetv info
Dès lundi, 48 heures à peine après l'annonce de l'accord, plusieurs gouvernements de la zone euro ouvrent la voie à des aménagements, voire critiquent à mots couverts le projet pourtant adopté en leur nom. Si Chypre veut "protéger les petits dépôts, il faut l'écouter", déclare ainsi le ministre des Finances français, Pierre Moscovici. "C'est la position que j'ai défendue, face à des positions beaucoup plus dures", ajoute-t-il dans ce qui ressemble fort à une volonté de se désolidariser de certains de ses confrères.On Monday, [18 March] just 48 hours after the announcement of the agreement, several governments in the euro area pave the way for adjustments or criticize in veiled terms the project they had all the same accepted. If Cyprus wants to "protect the small deposits, we must listen" , said the French Finance Minister, Pierre Moscovici. "This is the position I defended, against much harsher positions" he added, in what strongly looks like a desire to dissociate himself from some of his colleagues.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 25th, 2013 at 05:05:55 PM EST
Re: France (4.00 / 3)
Moscovici pas l'étrangleur de Chypre - Europe1.fr - Economie Moscovici not the Cyprus Strangler - Europe1.fr - Economy
Le ministre des Finances français Pierre Moscovici s'est défendu lundi à Stockholm d'être "l'étrangleur du peuple chypriote", et une nouvelle fois condamné les attaques du Parti de gauche à son encontre. En visite dans la capitale suédoise pour rencontrer son homologue Anders Borg, Pierre Moscovici s'est félicité devant la presse que le plan de sauvetage de Chypre écarte la taxation des dépôts bancaires inférieurs à 100.000 euros.The French Finance Minister Pierre Moscovici denied on Monday [25 March] in Stockholm that he was the "strangler of the Cypriot people", and once again condemned the attacks of the Left Party against him. Visiting the Swedish capital to meet his counterpart Anders Borg, Pierre Moscovici told the press that he was happy the bailout of Cyprus no longer includes the taxation of bank deposits less than 100,000 euros.
"Il y a une protection des dépôts : ça c'est u principe qui doit être un principe intangible dans l'Union européenne", a-t-il affirmé à la presse. "Cela a toujours été la thèse française, c'est celle que j'ai toujours défendue depuis l'origine, n'en déplaise à ceux qui voient en moi je ne sais quel étrangleur du peuple chypriote, et c'est celle qui a finalement prévalu", a-t-il ajouté."There is a deposit protection: this is a principle that must be an inviolable principle in the European Union," he told reporters. "It has always been the French standpoint, it is the one I always defended from the outset, whether those who see me as some strangler of the Cypriot people like it or not, and that is the view that finally prevailed," he added.

Mélenchon had called Moscovici the strangler of the Cypriot people.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 25th, 2013 at 05:28:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Finland (none / 1)
Finlands finance minister actually briefed parliament on their position before going to Brussels.

Urpilainen om Cypern: Finlands linje är hård | Hbl.fi/nyheter Urpilainen on Cyprus: The Finnish line is hard | Hbl.fi
Innan Urpilainen åkte till Bryssel mötte hon riksdagens Stora utskott. Det skedde redan klockan sju på morgonen. Det var inte mycket hon kunde säga om Cypern-mötet.Before Urpilainen went to Brussels she met with the Parliamentary Large committe. It was seven o'clock in the morning. There was not much she could say about the Cyprus meeting.
- Vi vet inte hur mycket pengar Cypern behöver. Cypern befinner sig i en mycket svår situation. Utan utomståendes stöd tvingas landet ställa in betalningarna. Nu är frågan hur stora lån Cypern behöver och till vilka lånevillkor.- We do not know how much money Cyprus needs. Cyprus is in a very hard situation. Without outside support the country will be forced to cancel payments. Now the question is how large loans Cyprus needs and on what conditions.
- Finlands linje är hård. Vi utgår från att Cypern på riktigt måste kunna sköta sin ekonomi i framtiden, sade Urpilainen innan hon skyndade till Brysselplanet.- The Finnish line is hard. Our starting point is that Cyprus needs to really be able to handle its economy in the future, said Urpilainen before she hurried to the Brussels plane.


Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Tue Mar 26th, 2013 at 08:24:09 AM EST
Re: Finland (none / 1)
After the second meeting, this is said:

Urpilainen: Cypern-paketet i riksdagen efter påsk | Hbl.fi/nyheter Urpilainen: Cyprus package in parliament after Easter | Hbl.fi
Finansminister Jutta Urpilainen (SDP) säger att riksdagen får ta ställning till Cypernlösningen strax efter påsk. Det är meningen att euroländerna fattar de slutliga besluten om stödpaketet nästa månad.Finance Minister Jutta Urpilainen (SDP) says that parliament will decide on the Cyprus solution shortly after Easter. The euro countries are meant to make the final decisions on the support package next month.

Urpilainen: Cypern-paketet i riksdagen efter påsk | Hbl.fi/nyheter Urpilainen: Cyprus package in parliament after Easter | Hbl.fi
Urpilainen säger att den lösning som nåddes i natt är mer i enlighet med Finlands mål än den föregående lösningen man kom överens om för en och en halv vecka sedan.Urpilainen says that the solution that was reached last night is more in line with Finland goals then the previous solution they agreed upon one and a half week ago .
Den nya lösningen innebär att placerare med insättningar på över 100 000 euro får ta en stor del av smällen.- Nu kommer placeraransvaret att förverkligas på ett helt nytt sätt och också på ett exceptionellt omfattande sätt. Jag tycker det är en mycket bra och rättvis lösning, sade Urpilainen. The new solution means that investors with deposits over 100 000 euros will take a large part of the hit. - Now the investor resposibility will be made real in a brand new and also exceptionally large way. I think it is a very good and fair solution, said Urpilainen.


Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Tue Mar 26th, 2013 at 08:33:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Finland (none / 1)
Anonymous source in the eurogroup, quote by FT then quoted by Svenska Dagbladet in in Sweden, claims the following:

Stenhård finsk linje bakom Cyperns bankskatt | SvD Hard Finnish position behind Cyprus bank tax | Svenska Dagbladet
Mycket talar för att det var Sveriges grannland Finland som drivit den hårdaste linjen mot Cypern i förhandlingarna. Det har varit känt länge att Tyskland och Finland pläderat för att alla banksparare på Cypern ska vara med och bära kostnaderna vid ett räddningspaket, läs mer i den grekiska tidningen Ekathimerini här.Much points to that it was Sweden's neighbor Finland that has driven the hardest line against Cyprus in the negotiations. It has been long been known that Germany and Finland has pushed that all bank depositors in Cyprus should be carry the costs of a rescue package, read more in the Greek newspaper Ekathimerini here
Men i dagens Financial Times beskrivs just Finland som ännu mer hårdnackat i frågan än Tyskland.But in today's Financial Times Finland is described as even more hardliners then Germany.
"De var i händerna på finländarna, som var mycket mer dogmatiska", säger en högt uppsatt källa inom eurozonen till FT."It was in the hands of the finns, which were much more dogmatic", says a high-ranking source in the euro zone to the FT.

Link to Ekathimerini goes to article in February after the Reuters Summit on the future of the eurozone.

ekathimerini.com | No broad 'bail-in' for Cyprus depositors, ECB says

Germany, Finland and some other eurozone countries are pushing for bank depositors and other investors in Cyprus to carry some of costs of a bailout, both to shield their taxpayers and because of suspicions that wealthy Russians and others have used the island to stash possibly illicit funds.


Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Tue Mar 26th, 2013 at 08:47:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Finland (none / 0)
Hah...wealthy Russians will not stop being wealthy ( think of all that gas and oil laying there) but they will definitely not put their money anywhere near Europe from now on...So...Maybe Europe is just wealthy enough to not need this money from "dirty" Russians???And in the process are punishing Greeks, small depositors for "being lazy"...
Or are they digging their own grave?
How is all this rational? They intentionally created those tax havens...Was it just for the purpose to rob those Russians? Because as far as I can see UK and probably others intend to compensate their "investors" who are losing their money in Cyprus...
It all looks like a pity and petty job because they are "slaughtering the cow just for one steak"...


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sat Apr 13th, 2013 at 08:27:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Memorandum of Understanding (4.00 / 3)
There's the political statement on Council or Eurogroup conclusions, and there's the actual operative document: Memorandum of Understanding on Specific Economic Policy Conditionality
Contains sensitive information, not for further distribution
[No Shit, Sherlock!]

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 26th, 2013 at 12:46:28 PM EST
Luxembourg (none / 0)
(n/t)

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 28th, 2013 at 04:57:57 AM EST
Cyprus on Luxembourg (none / 0)
EU Observer: Cyprus: only Luxembourg defended us (27.03.13)
Cypriot foreign minister Ioannis Kasoulides told the Skai TV broadcaster on Wednesday that "only Luxembourg spoke up in our favour during the Eurogroup" meeting last weekend which sealed the tough terms of its bailout. He added that France "stayed silent," while Germany imposed its "ruthless" views on southern Europe.


guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 28th, 2013 at 04:59:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What did really happen at the big meeting about Cyprus? | 28 comments (28 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)


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