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Defeat from the Jaws of Victory

by rifek Mon Jun 27th, 2016 at 05:20:33 AM EST

As I commented elsewhere, Labour will fracture because it just can't help itself.  And here we go.

Frontpaged - Frank Schnittger

So the usual suspects have suddenly decided they don't like how Corbyn handled the Brexit mess.  Would any of the Blairistas care to explain how they'd have done better?  Corbyn himself was certainly no fan of Brexit, but Labour were split, and Corbyn was doing his best to avoid a schism. Even Zoe Williams has turned into a circling shark, although I note shut down the comments about 10 seconds after she posted, apparently to keep another 1,000 people from calling her a vacuous twit.

It's all very suspect and very disingenuous.  They've all known Hilary Benn was dead-man-walking since his ISIL speech and vote last December, and they've been planning this stunt ever since.  The Brexit vote simply gives them something to thump their chests about other than Benn.

Corbyn saw that the Tories were caught in a cleft stick.  Either Cameron or Boris was going to win and be left with a profoundly split party.  By soft-pedaling as Corbyn did, Labour were in position to pounce on whichever side survived.  Now Labour are divided, and Boris has breathing room.  Corbyn might do himself (and ultimately Labour) a great favor by stepping down and letting the Benn Brigade finish frying up the dog's breakfast they've begun, and positioning himself to swoop back in when they've proved what bollocks they are.  "Here in these confines...."

Display:
Defeat from the Jaws of Victory | 91 comments (91 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 2)
As I also commented elsewhere, I don't dispute your analysis but I think there is more too it than a simple faction fight. Who is going to represent the 48% who voted remain and provide leadership for all the disaffected pro-Remain Tory MP's marooned by a BoJo leadership? Corbyn was always anti-EU until he became Labour leader.  His embrace of the EU since then has been luke warm at best.  He simply doesn't make a convincing or inspiring leader for a Remain position.

We will have BoJo and Farage leading the Brexit camp.  I doubt there is much space on that side for Labour to muscle in, even if many of their traditional voters have defected to that side. On the remain side, you have only the Lib Dems and pro-EU  Tories.. That is where the growth market is as the Brexit case disintegrates into chaos.

The tragedy is that there is a very strong left case to be made for the EU, but Corbyn has never succeeded in making it. The bigger tragedy is that the UK has led the charge pushing the EU in a neo-liberal direction and now the UK or any UK leader has zero credibility or bargaining power to push the EU back into a more "social market" or leftward direction. If Corbyn wants to reform the EU into a more social democratic or socialist direction, who will listen to him now in the UK or EU?

Instead he wants to "respect the result of the election" and change Labour into a defacto Brexit party. The Blairites are not alone in opposing that and it is difficult to see why anyone would vote for a pro-Brexit Labour if they can vote for the real thing in UKIP.  They don't even have to overcome their traditional distaste for all things Tory to do so.  So who do the 48% Remainers and those disillusioned by the antics of BoJo and Farage vote for?

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Jun 27th, 2016 at 10:00:15 AM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
The tragedy is that there is a very strong left case to be made for the EU, but Corbyn has never succeeded in making it.

I admire Corbyn's attitude on Europe, authentically ambivalent, if not diffident.

Good point about after years of trolling the EU, the last -and most tactless- thing he could do would be to start whaling on them to change at this point in time. If he became Prime Minister he'did have the clout, but not now.
If I were he and felt the EU as we know it is doomed to fail, I'd do exactly what he's doing, let the Tories impale themselves on their contradictions, and continue pointing out that Cameron's motives for calling it were cowardly and base. Refrain from schadenfreude and merely politely repeat his position of being mainly anti- but pragmatically pro, an attitude that is reasoned, perhaps too subtle for the binary-thinking press.
As if voters didn't understand lesser evil votes by now!
Any excuse will do to try and tear him down. Any event twisted to show imaginary failings, chief of which no wings to fly with.
Boris' breakfast kipper has just jumped out of his plate and given him a slap in the jowls.
It would be unseemly to crow I told you so, or to try and grab media attention. A quiet, discreet and dignified reverence for the tolling death-knell of the Nasty Party is the way of the gentleman he is.

They say be careful what you want, you might get it. Boris is heading for political Darwin award of the millennium. The Empah ends with not with a bang but with a drunken giggle, so it goes.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jun 27th, 2016 at 02:43:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
Neither party seems to care about large, disaffected blocs in their ranks, especially Labour.  Blair made a career out of asking everyone to his left, "What are you going to do, join the Lib Dems?"  Corbyn is generally an internationalist but opposed the EU because of austerity and antidemocracy.  The coup leaders aren't pushing Remain to correct those points but just to protect The City.  I don't see that taking the Remain cause or Labour very far.  In fact I see it playing into the hands of the pro-EU Tories who are now planning a counter-coup.  Maybe i'm giving Corbyn too much credit for strategic thinking, but I'm far from the sharpest tool in the shed, and it didn't take me much wattage to see that the Talleyrand Gambit (smile, make nice, don't do too much too soon, don't help your unwitting ally's opponents [Boris's Tory opponents], and wait for your opponents to wreck themselves) was likely the best option available for Labour.
by rifek on Mon Jun 27th, 2016 at 05:36:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Can't say I agree with you here. Corbyn made an honest case for Remain. There is just nothing to justify enthusiasm for the EU as is for a leftist. His opponents wanted him to stand shoulder to shoulder with Cameron, falling on his own sword, possibly following Scottish labour into oblivion. I've also seen complaints that he banned his campaign from "discussing concerns about immigration".
Furthermore no one will be helped by ignoring the votum. The Far right on the whole continent would flourish, once again being saved from facing any consequences for their lies.
Cameron broke it. No one can fix it now.

One final thing: Chilcott is supposed to finally come out. That would be the best time for a purge. As far as I can see the rebels have no actual positive support outside the London media bubble and people who are likely to blame Corbyn for Brexit wouldn't have voted for him anyway.

by generic on Mon Jun 27th, 2016 at 06:37:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 2)
I can't think of anything more likely to secure a Tory victory in a possible election than handing the Labour party back to the Blairites.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jun 29th, 2016 at 01:26:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Of course you make a valid point here. But does it really make sense to reorganzie the political system along the lines of pro- and anti-EU?

Would this do the EU a favour?

Pro- or Anti-EU, I think having solid ideas on the economy is still the most important thing.

by rz on Mon Jun 27th, 2016 at 10:40:31 AM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
The anti-Corbyn forces are attacking him for having been insufficiently pro-EU (disingenuously, but that's their story, and they're sticking to it), so I think you have people on both sides of the chamber (Boris with the Tories, coup leaders with Labour) making it all about one's EU position.
by rifek on Mon Jun 27th, 2016 at 02:18:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
This can fly if it is unopposed. Were someone to make the case that the only thing to keep the UK and its people from prosperity is lack of a leader and a Parliament willing to enact available options things might change. People will rally to a positive agenda.

While it is the EMU and the ECB that are imposing 'austerity' on EMU members, the UK is doing it to itself. The possibility is there. But if there is no leader available willing to make the case then it has no chance.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jun 27th, 2016 at 06:30:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
I think having solid ideas on the economy is still the most important thing.

Agreed! Further, there is no real obstacle to the UK having a solid economy. They have their own currency. All that is required is to use it. Keynes could have easily handled this. Add MMT and there is no reason not to end austerity and embrace a booming economy.

Has Corbyn been mentally captured by a confection of RW talking points passing as an economic policy? Starting to look that way.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jun 27th, 2016 at 06:22:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Labour were already as fractured as the Tories! Old-new Labour is a smoking ruin in the rear-view mirror, only Corbyn -or someone like him or better- can pull in the pre-disenchanted vote and give the political system an infusion of vigorous new blood.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jun 27th, 2016 at 02:51:54 PM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Labour, though, are used to being fractured.  It's their standard way of doing business.  The Tories have a problem in that they're fractured and don't know how to deal with it.  Labour, on the other hand, have a problem because they're facing the existential fracture between Real Labour and Blairite Tory-Lite.
by rifek on Mon Jun 27th, 2016 at 05:42:11 PM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
It is all a rather undignified spectacle. Really sad. You know, several Labour MPs, are being quoted as saying that Corbyn lost 'the Coal fields'. So.. are they gonna win the Coal fields? by which strategy?
by rz on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 12:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
The same way the Blairites have always "won the coal fields": promise them desk jobs, give them "retraining" and a crappy service industry job (if that), and ask them, "Well who else are you going to vote for?"
by rifek on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 06:39:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
The Parliamentary Labour Party is vastly more Blairite than is the party base. The party should support anti- third way candidates for by-elections and the next general election. They should be busy now on this task given the uncertainty of the tenure of the current government.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 08:25:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory - Attn! Scots. (none / 0)
I saw an interview with a Greek/Scottish couple in Glasgow tonight on The PBS News Hour. They were living in Greece but had to move to Scotland because of the effects of the EURO and EU policy with regard to Greece. Now they are concerned both at the loss of access to the EU but also, and more so at the prospect of being on the Euro, knowing what they know. I don't know how Scotland's trade balance would be as a separate nation and a member of the EU and the EMU. I do know that, unless it is guaranteed to be running a trade surplus it would be in big trouble - as would the prized Scottish welfare system.

Here is Mark Blythe on AthensLive speaking to this subject:

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 12:13:13 AM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
Stand With Jeremy Corbyn | Jacobin

As reports about his alleged "sabotage" testify, "Corbyn's aides refused to allow LabourIN and senior Labour colleagues to discuss or address concerns around immigration, writing them off as `xenophobia', `prejudice' or `racism' at every turn."

This has been the situation at the shadow cabinet level for months.

Jeremy Corbyn has backed migrants' rights while those who have resigned in recent days have wanted harsher border controls, cuts to benefits, and a new narrative that validated much of the nativist sentiment the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) has stirred up.

by generic on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 05:25:12 PM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
According to Lord Ashcroft's poll 63 percent of Labour voters went for Remain with 37 percent against -- almost exactly the same numbers as the SNP (64-36) whose leader Nicola Sturgeon is being lauded by the press.
by generic on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 05:35:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If I Understand the Situation (none / 0)
Blairites never wanted Corbyn as the leader of the party and they are using Brexit as an excuse to dump him.  

 

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 05:40:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: If I Understand the Situation (4.00 / 2)
Quite. Though it is not clear to me if they can actually do anything about it. Don't think non-binding votes of confidence will impress him.
by generic on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 05:53:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's also good (4.00 / 2)
Not a Coup But a Blaze | Salvage
And some have really begun to persuade themselves that Labour could win an election with a more establishment leader, willing to flip off those portions of the Labour base who joined the majority in voting for Brexit. Such a collapse into anti-democratic reasoning - overthrow an elected leader in order to overthrow a democratic outcome - is a result of blind panic and unreason. It will not withstand the cool light of retrospection. But regardless, there is a looming danger that just enough people begin to cave that Corbyn's majority is endangered.
by generic on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 06:33:47 PM EST
Re: That's also good (none / 1)
Not a Coup But a Blaze | Salvage

This is not to say there is no signalling as to what kind of politics a successor should pursue. Polly Toynbee in the Guardian writes:

The resignation of most of his shadow cabinet at least offers hope of revival, with a new leader to seize the day. Who and how we don't yet know, but the party can't go on denying their heartlands' demand for migration curbs.

[...] Anyone now gurning with satisfaction at Corbyn's discomfiting, who feels resentment at Corbyn's `failing to campaign hard enough' in the referendum should remember this. The very first act of a post-Corbyn Labour leader would be to address the `legitimate concerns of ordinary people about migration', just as we are seeing the ghastly violence that results from years of pandering to such xenophobia.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 06:55:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: That's also good (4.00 / 3)
I bet they wanted him to say that immigration benefits the economy in aggregate, that of course there were some losers, but the government would make sure that they were compensated by government investment and welfare spending, that the bigger pot would be shared equitably and to propose detailed plans to do that, with the support of the Tories. Right?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 07:24:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 4)
Brexit live: Angela Eagle touted as unity candidate in Labour leadership crisis | Politics | The Guardian

A snap survey of Guardian readers, started on Monday, suggested that Jeremy Corbyn still enjoys a large amount of support among party members in spite of reservations about his performance since becoming leader.

It comes as grassroots organisations such as Momentum and some of the biggest unions have started preparing for a new leadership campaign in defence of Jeremy Corbyn after an overwhelming vote of no confidence from Labour MPs.

Read more here about the survey, to which more than 4,000 people responded, 88% of them Labour members. It's not scientific but does offer a large pool of opinions.

Even allowing for the likelihood that a disproportionate number of Corbyn supporters would have responded, there is much anger at the sniping against him by the parliamentary Labour party since the day he became leader.

The survey, conducted by the Guardian community team, asked readers a series of questions including whether they had voted for Corbyn last year, whether they planned to vote for him again, how they felt about his performance, and how they voted in last week's European referendum.

Almost 90% of those who responded voted remain in the referendum in line with Labour's position.

Of the respondents, 81% voted for Corbyn last year. Of those who voted for him last year, 95% continue to support him as party leader and said they were intending to vote for him again.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 07:41:20 PM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 2)
The brazenness of the pro-coup spin in The Guardian in incredible. The above quote was from the live blogging, but in the linked article, the (deep-buried) passage on the 95% maintaining their support for Corbyn is directly followed by a totally unrepresentative he-said-she-said.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 08:06:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am not surprised anymore (none / 1)
by the inbuilt bias in the Bliardian.

Same as Le Monde is in the bag for the social-liberal wing of the PS, El Pais for PSOE, et c.

by John Redmond on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 08:41:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: I am not surprised anymore (none / 1)
Well - as I keep saying, we need our own media.

The heart-warming thing about the Guardian coverage is how much it reads like a press release from the Politburo - insinuation of disobedience, and emphasis that continuing disobedience by voters and their chosen representative will not be tolerated.

Truly, plebs, you have no alternative.

Also heart-warming is the way that Angela Eagle is being touted, which immediately suggests that either she has become a collaborator, or she has always been one.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jun 29th, 2016 at 01:24:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Of course the Blairites want Eagle.  She's been carrying water for the Ueberklass for years.  In 2008 she said that suggestions of a housing bubble a potential recession were "colourful and lurid fiction" that had "no real bearing on the macro-economic reality."  This is the sort of vision the coup leaders have for the UK.
by rifek on Thu Jun 30th, 2016 at 01:12:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 3)
The truth behind the Labour coup, when it really began and who manufactured it (EXCLUSIVE) | The Canary

An exclusive investigation by The Canary can reveal that the current Labour `coup' being instigated against Jeremy Corbyn appears to have been orchestrated by a PR company where Tony Blair's arch spin-doctor, Alastair Campbell, is a senior advisor.

He sits alongside several other figures, all of whom have direct links to the centre-right of the Labour party, and the Fabians at Portland Communications.

The key man is apparently a lower-ranked apparatchnik named Conor McGinn, who works at the Whips' Office and organised the resignations.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Jun 28th, 2016 at 07:53:07 PM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 2)
Quick subject on the Labour this morning on France24, French language channel, which is usually quite interesting. For this however, they must have lifted their material from the English language channel: The only person interviewed is... Alastair Campbell.

FRANCE 24 is SUCH rubbish

by Bernard (bernard) on Wed Jun 29th, 2016 at 05:40:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
Suspect? Ya think?

The Manufactured Labour Coup

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jun 29th, 2016 at 01:18:19 AM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Oops - didn't see DoDo's comment.

Feel free to delete.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jun 29th, 2016 at 01:19:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)

Never liked Harry Potter anyway.

by generic on Wed Jun 29th, 2016 at 08:53:22 AM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Did she call Corbyn a fascist? Seriously?

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed Jun 29th, 2016 at 12:49:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
Some PR flacks found some old guy wearing an "eradicate the right wing blairite vermin" shirt.

This one:

by generic on Wed Jun 29th, 2016 at 01:15:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Sure that is not an old girl?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jun 29th, 2016 at 04:48:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Looks more like an reaction to an order on twitter.
by IM on Wed Jun 29th, 2016 at 08:45:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
The first part? Sure. But the second is in reaction to the language on the T-shirt.
by generic on Wed Jun 29th, 2016 at 11:59:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 2)
by generic on Thu Jun 30th, 2016 at 06:57:18 PM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
It would seem functionally impossible to make even the mildest criticism of the avowedly Zionist state of Israel and its policies without being accused of antisemitism. Surely that is the functional equivalent of comparing policies of Zionist Israel to similar policies employed by Nazi Germany. But how much of this is just pretext for bashing Corbyn?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 30th, 2016 at 07:08:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 5)
All of it? The point is not only did he not say anything remotely offensive, he also did not say something that you could misunderstand as something offensive. So they just made up a quote.
by generic on Thu Jun 30th, 2016 at 08:59:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory - Speaking of (none / 0)
Brexit Leader Boris Johnson Rules Out Bid To Be Next British Prime Minister

LONDON, June 30 (Reuters) - Former London mayor Boris Johnson, favorite to become Britain's prime minister, abruptly pulled out of the race on Thursday, upending the contest less than a week after leading the campaign to take the country out of the EU.

Johnson's announcement, to audible gasps from a roomful of journalists and supporters, was the biggest political surprise since Prime Minister David Cameron quit on Friday, the morning after losing the referendum on British membership in the bloc.

It makes Theresa May, the interior minister who backed remaining in the European Union, the new favorite to succeed Cameron.

May, a party stalwart seen as a steady hand, announced her own candidacy earlier on Thursday, promising to deliver the withdrawal from the EU voters had demanded, despite having campaigned for the other side.

"Brexit means Brexit," she told a news conference.



"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 30th, 2016 at 08:37:31 PM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory - Speaking of (none / 0)
Boris finally looked at the job description and said, "I don't want to work like that."
by rifek on Thu Jun 30th, 2016 at 11:32:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory - Speaking of (none / 0)
I was hoping he would take it and turn his tenure into a complete disaster, discrediting the whole Euroskeptic wing of the Tories.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 30th, 2016 at 11:45:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 4)
I, personally, will be very sad if Corbyn goes.  He may very well be the last leader of Labour as a major political force.  Yes he is a throwback to a previous age: The sort of leftwinger who organised rallies and protests and joined all sorts of progressive advocacy groups that I used to get involved with in my youth.  But he also represents a decency and integrity which is almost entirely absent from todays post factual politics.

The candidates he stood a against in the last leadership election were simply absolutely awful.  They couldn't give a straight answer to  straight question. All seemed to be careerist crawthumping ingratiaters who would do or say anything if they felt it would further their promotional prospects and who wouldn't know a principled stand if it slapped them in the face.  None of them actually seemed to believe in socialism or trade unionism or anything Labour used to stand for.

So Corbyn was a giant amongst pygmies, and remains one of the greatest assets the labour party still has.  I wouldn't be surprised if he successfully withstood the Westminster coup being plotted against him.  In fact it could further his standing as an outsider not of the Westminster elite who have been primarily responsible for the current mess.  Perhaps the British press are about to find out that they no longer call the shots.  

I could even see Corbyn becoming Prime Minister if the Tory party splits over the EU, and UKIP runs away with a lot of their votes.  He is the only person with the standing to actually reverse course and negotiate a left leaning reform of the EU as the price of staying in - following an election in which he explicitly campaigned for a remain.  But maybe that is wishful thinking on my part...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jul 1st, 2016 at 03:58:27 PM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 4)
This is a day old, but comedy gold: some of the anti-Corbyn rebels seem to realise that they could actually lose (my emphasis).

MPs divided over Corbyn as Eagle delays leadership challenge | Politics | The Guardian

Eagle, the former shadow business secretary, was expected to declare that she was going to run as a "unity candidate" at a 3pm press conference.

However, her associates claim she has decided to hold off because of the turmoil engulfing the Conservatives and to give more time for Labour MPs to pressurise Corbyn in to handing in his resignation.

Her decision to stand was also delayed when the former shadow welfare secretary Owen Smith collected enough nominations to put his name forward, following concerns that Eagle may not be able to win over the party in a ballot of members.

...Some MPs are concerned that Eagle will face hostility from many members over her support for the Iraq war. The Chilcot report into the buildup, conduct and aftermath of the war is due to be published on Wednesday.

...One pro-Smith MP said there should be no rush to challenge Corbyn. "We have to give them some more time; if Angela challenges him and we lose, it could split the party permanently. There is no need for a challenge to happen today, or even this week. It's self-interest. That's what has motivated people to come out and back Owen," the MP said.

Of course, there is still no reason to get hopes high: Corbyn could lose the vote, or win but his opponents might form a new party, repeating the eighties when the Labour splitters of the SDP handed power to Thatcher. BTW, I didn't know until now that Polly Toynbee, who seems to lead The Guardian's disgraceful cheerleading of the coup attempt, was in the SDP.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Jul 1st, 2016 at 05:50:36 PM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 4)
This is yesterday's news, too:

Angela Eagle leadership website registered days before she resigned - The i newspaper online iNews

Website registration data appears to show that the domain "angela4leader.org" was set up two days before she resigned

It also came before Hilary Benn was sacked by Jeremy Corbyn early Sunday morning - the spark that set off a major rebellion in the Labour shadow cabinet.

Angela Eagle is expected to announce a run for the leadership of the Labour Party in the coming days.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jul 1st, 2016 at 06:35:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 2)
The show continues:

Tom Watson calls on Labour MPs to prevent leadership contest | Politics | The Guardian

Watson is seeking to organise a meeting with Corbyn's closest advisers to try to agree a negotiated settlement that would see the Labour leader step down voluntarily, thus avoiding an acrimonious and drawn-out battle.

...Eagle's closest allies say that she is a unity candidate who would pull the party together. But supporters of Smith, the shadow pensions secretary until he stepped down on Monday, have also been collecting nominations, and think he would have a better chance than Eagle because his politics are further to the left and because he did not vote on the invasion of Iraq in 2003, having not been an MP at the time.

The touting of decidedly Labour right candidate of Eagle as a "unity" candidate was ridiculous enough, but in the very next sentence, The Guardian managed to write this:

MPs on all sides of the party were heeding Watson's call for calm over the weekend as they consider how best to launch a challenge.

Yeah because all sides of the party want to launch a challenge against Corbyn...

As for the chances of the challengers:

A poll of Labour members by the Times suggested that while Eagle would have a better chance against Corbyn compared with other potential candidates such as Watson or Dan Jarvis, the current leader would still win in a one-to-one contest.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jul 1st, 2016 at 07:55:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 3)
The ineptitude of the failed Corbyn coup
Just look at it from their strategic perspective for a moment. They claim to care about the Labour Party (so much so that they shed crocodile tears on the telly over it) and they claim that Corbyn doesn't do enough to hold the Tories to account.

 If they had any strategic nous, instead of attempting their coup immediately after Brexit, the plotters (Hillary Benn, Angela Eagle and the like) could have made a huge show of attacking the Tories for Brexit, they could have used their friends in the media to give their criticisms prominence, whilst Corbyn's get ignored, belittled and disparaged.

 Instead of helping the Tories out of the Brexit hole they'd dug for themselves and booting the Labour Party down there in their place as they did by launching their coup immediately, the plotters could have won plaudits for their own strong responses in the crisis situation, boosting the Labour party rather than trashing it, and ensuring their own stars were rising in the process.

 Thus, a few weeks, or months after Brexit, when the public narrative was clearly set that Brexit was the fault of the Tories, they could have tried their rebellion, pointing to the fact that they laid all the big hits on the Tories in the wake of Brexit, not Corbyn.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jul 1st, 2016 at 09:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 5)
Why would they lay the big hits on the Tories? The point of the chicken coup - as it's coming to be called - was to remove Corbyn before the Chilcot Report arrives, using Brexit as a pretext. Conveniently, and entirely by unfortunate accident, it also left the Tories off the Brexit hook - although Gove's subsequent backstabbing of Boris destroyed that misdirection.

The PLP has no serious interest in opposing Tory policies among the PLP, except in an ineffectual token way. With a few exceptions, most of the PLP is just fine with pretending to be left-enough to keep being an MP, but not so left it makes a difference.

Remember, these are the people who voted to support the most fascist welfare bill passed in recent history.

Most of these MPs were parachuted into constituencies by what used to be the solidly Blair-ite party leadership, which saw the members as a source of legitimacy it could exploit for money and power, not a constituency it needed to represent.

Corbyn has upended that cosy arrangement by being a true believer in popular socialism. He may be old and not particularly charismatic, but if he deselects the Blairites and replaces them with more true believers we could see a genuine socialist government in the UK - for the first time since the 1970s.

The thought terrifies the establishment, which is why the attacks on Corbyn have been so vicious and persistent.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jul 1st, 2016 at 11:39:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
My thoughts exactly. The Blairites, Conservatives, the City and the media are all terrified of a Labour government under Corbyn. Das Ende! All the more reason to push it. If they get an adequate majority of good socialist MPs they could lay the foundation for generations of left leaning governments by bringing prosperity back to most UK citizens. Same with Sanders and a progressive Congress in the USA, but sooner.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Jul 2nd, 2016 at 05:11:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 5)
Labour Party gains 60,000 new members in one week following attempted coup against Corbyn | UK Politics | News | The Independent

At least 60,000 new people have joined the Labour party in the past week amid delays to Jeremy Corbyn's leadership challenge.

The figure, said to be one of the fastest increases in membership of any British political party in history, follows MPs' attempt to launch a coup against the Labour leader.

A mass of resignations from the Shadow Cabinet and 75 per cent vote of no confidence have left Mr Corbyn with a minimal following. The rush of new members to the party, however, raises Labour's total membership to around 450,000 - higher than its last peak of 405,000 during Tony Blair's leadership in 1997.

...Of the new members, 20,000 have been checked and over half are thought to have joined to support Mr Corbyn in "a historic shift" to prevent the leadership challenge by Labour MPs.

(My emphasis)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Jul 1st, 2016 at 09:23:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
And, while Labour membership trended downwards after the peak under Blair, it is now trending upwards for Corbyn.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Jul 1st, 2016 at 09:40:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 3)
My award for the most absurd anti-Corbyn argument in The Guardian goes to Marina Hyde, who welcomed David Cameron's support for the coup plotters:

Labour is making the Conservative omnishambles era look like a utopia | Marina Hyde | Opinion | The Guardian

Today's show title was Why Don't You Just Quit Your Job Like I Did?, and featured David Cameron attempting to perform an intervention on the Labour party. Channelling Trotsky's hero Oliver Cromwell in his dismissal of the Rump parliament, Cameron was nothing if not direct with Jeremy Corbyn: "It might be in my party's interests for him to sit there, but it is not in our country's interests. For heaven's sake, man, go!"

Arguably the most boggling aspect of the moment was that Cameron seemed genuinely sincere, raising the encouraging possibility that he actually gives more of a toss about the future of the Labour party than the leader of the Labour party.

Suuuure!

But The Guardian's saving grace is cartoonist Steve Bell, who made this:



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Jul 2nd, 2016 at 06:54:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The logical conclusion of all this (none / 1)
is that Cameron should become leader of Labour and Farage should un-retire for a second time to become leader of the Conservatives... Perhaps Nicola Sturgeon can be persuaded to abandon Scottish Independence by being offered the Prime Minister's job by a coalition of Remain Tory and Labour MPs?  This is starting to make Irish politics look serious...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Jul 4th, 2016 at 10:57:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: The logical conclusion of all this (none / 1)
Or we could just get the Teletubbies to come out of retirement and lead our parties.

More popular, and more coherent policies too.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jul 4th, 2016 at 06:37:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Coup failed? (none / 1)
Back on Wednesday, in an article focused on first doubts about Angela Eagles leadership bid, there was a suggestion that Corbyn might lose the backing of the unions:

EXCLUSIVE Angela Eagle leadership bid hit by MPs' backlash | PoliticsHome.com

One MP said: "Anyone with any sense is thinking about how can we best win over a membership that has changed, and we've got to get the unions on board.

"There were calls between the general secretaries yesterday. They've got to handle it carefully because Jeremy was their guy. But you could start to see them pulling away in the next day or two."

Well that anonymous MP was apparently practising wishful thinking.

The coup has "failed", McCluskey tells moderates | LabourList

Len McCluskey today told MPs opposed to Jeremy Corbyn to "desist" from organising against the Labour leader and said trade unions could mediate between the warring wings of the party.

The General Secretary of Unite, the UK's largest trade union, labelled last week's coup attempt as "failed" and warned of the risk of a "civil war" within Labour.

"This has been a political lynching of a decent man - undermined, humiliated, attacked in order to push him out," McCluskey said.

"Here's the truth. It has failed. The coup has failed. Jeremy Corbyn is made of stronger stuff. He is a man of steel and he's made it clear that he will not step down.

"I'm amazed that some of the MPs have fallen into a trap. I think they've been seduced by sinister forces in play here."



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jul 3rd, 2016 at 10:58:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
And now the other potential challenger backed down, too:

Owen Smith puts leadership challenge on hold as talks continue amid fears of Labour split | LabourList

The prospect of a challenge to Jeremy Corbyn's leadership receded today as one of the MPs tipped to take him on says that "more time" must be given to discussions to ensure Labour does not split.

Owen Smith said this morning that he has received assurances that private talks between Corbyn, deputy leader Tom Watson and Unite General Secretary Len McCluskey have proved "productive". Smith, along with Angela Eagle, has been sounding out colleagues about launching a bid to challenge Corbyn, but now says that his priority is finding a resolution that does not tear Labour apart.

Well he can't admit he realised he has no chance at defeating Corbyn, does he.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Jul 7th, 2016 at 06:59:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
by generic on Thu Jul 7th, 2016 at 07:51:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 4)
This is no time for a coup against a successful Labour leader  John McDonnell New Statesman
The Labour Party had the opportunity to keep its head while all about it lost theirs. It could have positioned itself as a credible alternative to a broken Government and a Tory party in chaos. Instead we have been left with a pathetic attempt to overturn the democratic will of the membership.

But this has been coming for some time. In my opinion it has very little to do with the ramifications of the referendum result. Jeremy Corbyn was asked to do two things throughout the campaign: first, get Labour voters to side with Remain, and second, get young people to do the same.
.....
This is no time for a leadership coup. I am dumbfounded by the attempt to remove Jeremy. The only thing that will come out of this attempted coup is another leadership election that Jeremy will win. Those opposed to him will then find themselves back at square one. Such moves only hurt Labour's electoral chances. Labour could be offering an ambitious plan to the country concerning our current relationship with Europe, if opponents of Jeremy Corbyn hadn't decided to drop a nuke on the party.

Considering that this whole fiasco seems to have been organized by Blair's former spin-meister it would seem time for a house cleaning. Corbyn supporters should make sure of the composition of the NEC and the CLP organizations so as to be prepared for a general election. With Corbyn reported being ready to recommend Blair for investigation of charges of war crimes it is not hard to see the priority of Alistair Campbell.

Flush the toilet, already!

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Jul 1st, 2016 at 09:55:26 PM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
tbh the case that this is organised by the Blairite pr firm, Portland Communications, is open to doubt. I've seen reliably left blogs alleging that the Canary is publishing clickbait more than evidence.

So I don't know.

Truth is, it doesn't have Tony's stamp on it. It's far too amateurish. Even if it was long planned it just seems like it was a last minute and opportunistic attempt by 2nd rate politicians and 3rd rate planners to seize any passing moment to see if they could stick a knife in.

Well, if you're going to stab the king, you'd better kill him dead. A light scratch isn't enough, certainly not enough for him to fall on his own sword, which seems to be the plan up to now.

What were they thinking? Seriously, I've seen 10 year olds put together a plan that made more sense.

I know that there are a lot of Labour people out there who are horrified at Corbyn's takeover, who sincerely believe him unelectable and likely to lead Labour down the path of a devastating defeat. Well, that's as may be, but nothing demonstrates your own low chances of winning an election than fucking up the decapitation of the largely isolated leader of your party.

And seriously, Angela Eagle as an alternative? What, apart from a return to the demoralising triaingulations of the recent past, does she offer as a winning alternative to Conservatism? Nothing, no alternative. Maybe a little less austerity here and there, maybe a less overt giveaway to the rich, maybe slightly less welfare cuts. But a Labour programme to offer hope to the country? Not a freaking chance.

There were moments last week when I seriously considered her. But the more I saw of this coup and its serial ineptitude, the more I knew that it would be far better if 172 MPs resigned than Corbyn. Then we can get decent people in.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Jul 4th, 2016 at 04:58:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
While the coup is embarrassing to watch I don't think they could have done more in the time frame. They needed a casus belly and there is no other one on the horizon. Labour wasn't doing badly in by-elections and would have improved due to the hash the Tories made. They also needed to start before Corbyn got to call for war crime investigations over Chilcot so it looks self interested.
by generic on Mon Jul 4th, 2016 at 06:02:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 2)
They've had a go at Len McCluskey for repeating the rumour. But they weren't quite so definite with a random member of the public.

Portland's history in the industry is interesting:

http://everything-pr.com/?s=portland+communications

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jul 4th, 2016 at 06:52:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 4)
Truth is, it doesn't have Tony's stamp on it. It's far too amateurish.

I think you give BliarCampbell too much credit. I don't think jobs like the second Dodgy Dossier on Iraq's WMD or the denigration of Dr David kelly was executed with any more professionalism. What changed IMHO is that on-line media has a much wider reach. Who knows if Corbyn would have withstood the pressure if ten thousand supporters wouldn't have mobilised in 24 hours, or if the bulk of supporters wouldn't have read instant counters to the MSM presentation of the coup (including the Canary article, whether it was actually into something or not).

The coup was certainly long-planned. There are several articles in which details of the plan were leaked, here is one all the way back from November:

Jeremy Corbyn could be hit by a wave of resignations in attempt to pave way for coup | UK Politics | News | The Independent

Some Labour frontbenchers who agreed to serve under left-wing party leader are determined to topple him well before the 2020 general election and have begun private talks about their tactics.  One option is an orchestrated series of resignations if Labour does badly in Mr Corbyn's first major electoral test - the contests next May for London Mayor; the Scottish Parliament; Welsh Assembly and local authorities.

"There will be an uprising in the PLP [Parliamentary Labour Party] at some point," one Labour MP told The Independent. "But we have to get our timing right. We may only have one shot."

Concerted resignations by several ministers and parliamentary aides close to Gordon Brown in 2006 helped to force Tony Blair to reveal his departure timetable as Prime Minister.

Some Blairites hope that a similar frontbench revolt would show that Mr Corbyn cannot govern the party and they hope to force a leadership contest at next autumn's Labour conference. But other moderates are more cautious, warning that premature action could backfire. Without significant grassroots support for a change of leader, they fear,  Mr Corbyn or another left-wing figure would be elected.  Another MP said: "We will  need to carry enough party members with us. Otherwise it would end in disaster."

There are a couple of methods that do remind me of the Bliar years:

  • getting the media to spread the propaganda on its own (in this case, above all The Mirror and The Guardian, and the most eye-catching part was not the biased reporting of news but the deceptive positive portraits for Angela Eagle, Tom Watson and Hilary Benn);
  • literally dozens of apparently false stories with anonymous sources meant to build a public opinion momentum giving Corbyn supporters a cold feet (stuff like stories of total loss of support among CLPs, imminent betrayal by unions or John McDonnell)
  • the well-timed appearance of spurious polls (like this one which asked people whether they'd vote Labour after Corbyn has gone, without the factor of who would be the successor)
  • the presence of posters in web forums who repeat even the most disingenuous talking points of the plotters like a machine, as if they did it as a day job

Add to that the website registrations for Angela Eagle before her resignation, and the particularly Orwellian spin of her as a "unity" candidate (she voted for the Iraq War, denied the housing bubble, voted for bombing Syria, and abstained in the vote on the Welfare Bill). I think the plot was large-scale, and anything but improvised, and certainly cooked up by the Labour right (even if they got the "soft left" behind them, too). But it was still botched because it was too last-decade.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jul 4th, 2016 at 09:41:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 2)
Yes, this bit of what I wrote remains true;-

Even if it was long planned it just seems like it was a last minute and opportunistic attempt by 2nd rate politicians and 3rd rate planners to seize any passing moment to see if they could stick a knife in.

Well, if you're going to stab the king, you'd better kill him dead. A light scratch isn't enough, certainly not enough for him to fall on his own sword, which seems to be the plan up to now.

I admit I'm disappointed at the extent of the duplicity from the Guardian, I really thought it would be more even-handed. I expect Polly Toynbee to be anti-Corbyn, although she's becoming a bit hysterical in her venom. But there just seems to be no counter-balance. It's like John Harris and Owen Jones, who'd you'd exepct to be provide a different view, have been locked in a cupboard somewhere in Guardian Towers.

As for the BBC, I suspect that there's a combination of wishful thinking and coordinated briefing going on there, but it's reporting is a bit of a joke by now.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 5th, 2016 at 12:12:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Yes, Owen Jones even had a piece which seemed to be talking about the coup plotters but without mentioning them or Corbyn explicitly, and I saw commenters asking why he doesn't make a stand.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 5th, 2016 at 12:21:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At least on Twitter... (none / 1)

by generic on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 07:40:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
He's also written a bit of a hand-wringing column on Medium which has been superceded by this announcement in the Telegraph

Telegraph - Defeated Labour rebels admit 'it's finished' as Jeremy Corbyn refuses to resign as leader

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 08:50:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 2)
It seems Owen Jones was in a bad spot because

Angela Eagle's campaign and Labour's crisis -- Medium

Angela Eagle is someone I like on a personal level and respect, even if I don't agree with her on various political issues.

...and

personally voted for Angela Eagle in Labour's deputy leadership election

...but he rubbishes the plot and the plotters and Eagle's bid in the rest of the piece. Then he argues against a Labour split due to FPTP. The question is, why this was not printed in The Guardian.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 09:17:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 2)
Why wasn't it in the Guardian? That's something of a $64k question.

I fear it's all part of the Guardian being exremely partizan against Corbyn. It has given Polly Toynbee, particualrly, numerous articles to repetitively whine about Corbyn. You accept that she, as a founder member of the SDP, is never going to be sympathetic to Corbyn's view, but her record is stuck and she keeps going over and over the same old unproven arguments.

To show how wholly the media is captured, there was a wonderfully breathless post on the Pink Paper blog (lgbt) in which Harriet Harman alleged that Angela Eagle complained that she was subject to homophobic abuse when she attended her local Labour party meeting last night. (note the deniable hearsay aspect of the smear)

Except that the local party quickly responded to point out that Ms Eagle hadn't even been at the CLP meeting, and that the chair, mother of a gay daughter, would never have tolerated homophobic abuse anyway.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jul 7th, 2016 at 11:41:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 3)
The Torygraph writes:

Defeated Labour rebels admit 'it's finished' as Jeremy Corbyn refuses to resign as leader

One senior MP told The Telegraph: "It's finished. He will win easily in a second contest if he is on the ballot, it's everything we wanted to avoid."

They added: "He is losing support of the membership by the day, there is no doubt about that, but they just sign up new members to replace them. He is Teflon in that sense."

Hahaha... you can't make this up. What despairs him is this:

Labour Party Membership Applications Surge 100,000 Since EU Referendum

At least 100,000 people have applied to join the Labour Party since the EU referendum result, The Huffington Post UK can reveal.

The flood of applications comes as Jeremy Corbyn faces a leadership challenge from his MPs.

It means Labour now has provisionally around 500,000 members. The surge in membership will be seen by supporters of Corbyn as evidence people want him to remain in post.

By contrast, the Conservative Party, which is also in the midst of a leadership election, has around 150,000 members.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 10:09:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Post-referendum boost means Labour now has over half a million members | LabourList

More than 500,000 people are now members of the Labour Party, according to latest figures confirmed today.

This is the highest membership has been at in decades, and includes an astonishing rise of around 128,000 in the fortnight since the EU referendum, bring the total number of members to 503,000 as of today. That's more than double the 200,000 members the party had on general election day last year, and dwarfs the 20,000 membership boost it had in the days following the election defeat.

...Party sources believe that a large number of the new members are £3 `converts', who signed up as supporters last year and looked to do so again to support Corbyn against the efforts to push him out over the past 10 days. As there is no leadership election at the moment, the £3 supporter scheme is not currently open.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Jul 7th, 2016 at 06:57:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
As for the BBC, well, the Tories are in power and the BBC's charter is up for renewal. That is how PBS got neutered.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 5th, 2016 at 02:36:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
No, thee's moreto it than that. Some of their senior staff, eg Kuennsberg, have taken sides and actively seek to undermine Corbyn in a way they would never do to a more conventionally acceptable labour leader.

You wouldn't see this if it had even been Andy Burnham, let alone Liz blue girl Kendall

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 5th, 2016 at 03:42:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Nearly a half-century of reading the Grauniad, and this is the most disgraceful thing I've seen out of it yet.
by rifek on Fri Jul 8th, 2016 at 01:45:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 2)


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 5th, 2016 at 07:48:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Am I the only one who finds this degree of organized mendacity in UK media to be disturbing? The BBC is supposed to be a quasi-independent public service, is it not? How can this frenzy not serve to expose the degree of subornation to which the BBC has been subjected by, presumably, the Conservative government. Or are such concerns now so 20th century?


"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 5th, 2016 at 09:41:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 2)
Well, for starters, this report features several news organisations, not just the BBC.

What it instead proves is that the anti-Corbyn plotters have a good briefing operation going to spread lies and mis-information to build a set of "facts on the ground" with the wider Labour membership. Cameron is merely jumping on the bandwagon to distract from the problems of the Tory party.

Sadly for them, it's 2016 rather than even 2006. Social media rebuttal is counter-acting this media bias in real time and very few people who matter are being persuaded.
This is why the "chicken coup" hans't yet openly challenged Corbyn for the leadership. They don't have control of the message where it matters.

As for the BBC openly plotting against Corbyn, you have to remember that the Tories deliberately set out to ensure their people were well-placed within the BBC News operation. From senior management to programme management and individual correspondents, there are an awful lot of Tories in there now

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 12:56:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Well, it doesn't explain why the BBC suddenly lost its journalistic standards. The tabloids don't need explaining.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 01:30:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
it wasn't sudden, it was the result of Tories deliberately setting out to become well-placed within the BBC News heirarchy.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 01:49:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
And 5 of 8 cited are BBC.


"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 01:32:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
4 of 8 or 5 of 10.

Ch4's news is provided by ITN, which is a commercial organisation providing news services to ITV stations in the UK. Wholly unrelated to BBC.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 01:54:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
And Channel 4 is another quasi public channel.


"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 01:35:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 1)
And now there is this:

Labour MP calls for cross party "national government" to deal with Brexit fallout | LabourList

A Labour backbencher has said that the "unprecedented peace time crisis" faced the by the UK in the aftermath of the EU referendum calls for the first grand coalition since the Second World War.

Jamie Reed, the Copeland MP who has been an outspoken critic of Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, said that nothing currently happening in any British party is "more important than our national interest".

In a series of tweets this afternoon, Reed said that internal conflicts in both the Conservatives and Labour had left the country effectively without "a government or an opposition" at a time when the UK needs "a period of national healing... alongside stability".

Sounds like the Chicken Coup plotters catching cold feet want even more support from the Tories than Cameron's call for Corbyn's resignation. The Labour Right has been dubbed "Tory light", and some seem hell-bent to prove the taunt right...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 01:54:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 2)
Just proving their weakness. These dismal people annoy me because they've been taking up space and using oxygen that other, more useful, people might use. I suspect that, with the boundary changes, there's gonna be a wholesale cleaing of the Augean stables and a lot of this dross are gonna go running off to Tony or Rupert wanting nice secure lobs licking arses.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 01:59:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
American Disease has spread from finance to journalism.
by rifek on Fri Jul 8th, 2016 at 01:49:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
We might expect something of this sort from Orban.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 5th, 2016 at 09:43:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
What it instead proves is that the anti-Corbyn plotters have a good briefing operation to spread lies and mis-information to build a set of "facts on the ground" with the wider Labour membership. Cameron is merely jumping on the bandwagon to distract from the problems of the Tory party.

Fact is, whatever it looks like to the wider public, it's failing with the intended audience.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 01:56:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
Well, I am heartily glad that it is failing. But the paritcipation of the quasi public news organizations remains disturbing. They can't even bother to call the people cited in the reports to see if they will confirm or deny? Since when is that? If Corbyn gets in there are certainly some reforms in order to assure impartiality of the news.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 02:26:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
the perils and pressures of "Breaking News". Be first to deliver the latest rumour and worry about the truth later

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jul 6th, 2016 at 05:35:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (4.00 / 2)
Disaster capitalism: the shocking doctrine Tories can't wait to unleash | Howard Hotson | Opinion | The Guardian
As Andy Beckett pointed out in the Guardian on Friday, within minutes of the BBC declaring victory for Brexit, the free-market thinktank the Centre for Policy Studies (CPS) revealed the plan B that has otherwise remained hidden from view. "The weakness of the Labour party and the resolution of the EU question have created a unique political opportunity to drive through a wide-ranging ... revolution on a scale similar to that of the 1980s ... This must include removing unnecessary regulatory burdens on businesses, such as those related to climate directives and investment fund[s]."

A week later, and this possibility is no longer merely theoretical: George Osborne has now proposed to cut corporation tax from 20% to below 15%, to staunch the haemorrhage of investment. During coming months and years, the unfolding crisis will provide countless pretexts for similar emergency measure that benefit business and roll back the state. So there will be no vote in parliament, no second referendum, no fresh elections: just the most massive legislative programme in history within the current parliament, in which the Tories command an absolute majority based on 37% of the votes cast in the last general election. So much for taking back democratic control.

by fjallstrom on Fri Jul 8th, 2016 at 09:17:43 AM EST
Re: Defeat from the Jaws of Victory (none / 0)
And those who support this will be handsomely rewarded when it is accomplished.  

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Jul 8th, 2016 at 01:04:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Defeat from the Jaws of Victory | 91 comments (91 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)


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